b*****o
发帖数: 332 | 1 第一次发帖，这个问题比较敏感，不知道斑竹对讨论下这个是个什么态度？
Does tennis have a doping problem?
any comments?
比较下，Sam Stosur和Marion Jones？
"She kind of has, like, almost the game of a man. That's what it feels
like."
-Jelena Jankovic describing Samantha Stosur's masculine approach to the
game of tennis. | b*****o
发帖数: 332 | 2 Djoker is doping too? and Nadal?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.tennis/browse_thread/t
a156876756fec/1652657b44da9d2b
Except that if he was truly allergic to gluten, we would have heard
more about it by now. IF it was so debilitating that eliminating it
from his diet resulted in a dramatic increase in his stamina,
strength, physical recovery, focus and intensity, are we to believe
that gluten was a barrier to his natural, latent superhuman
abilities? He has played 8 long three set matches among the
tournaments he's won, and after each one he goes right into another
one, and there's no physical repercussion? A gluten-free diet isn't
magic.
As for his breathing difficulties, he originally claimed they were
because of a deviated septum, which he then said the corrective
surgery he had done on it had completely cured, pointing to his better
results afterward as confirmation of its efficacy. Now he's not
cured, and the problem is gluten? It seems perfect in theory, but it
just doesn't add up. If it was a problem, how did he compete at such
a high level so consistently all this time, and why did none of his
plethora of health experts, doctors and dietitians, or he himself,
notice the effect of his diet on his body? And if it wasn't a
problem, why would he have sought help for it? It is beyond the pale
of believability that all he couldn't do before on a tennis court has
now become instantly possible because he cut gluten out of his diet,
when it wasn't affecting him before. I sincerely hope he is not
doping, but there's something off about the whole situation that just
seems really fishy to me, so it's hard to enjoy his success.
++++++++++++++++++++
So only low ranked players resort to cheating? There are a lot of
highly ranked athletes in a lot of sports using performance enhancing
drugs. Like I said, I don't want to believe it, because it deflates
that sense of awe and inspiration that great sports can give to the
audience. It sounds ludicrous to think that anyone would go through
all the hassle and stress of doping just because they aren't better
than everyone on the planet at something. But many have done exactly
this, many times with their handlers, sponsors or sporting/national
federations in compliance. Now it's even easier to do than it ever
was, and harder to detect. I have trouble believing in Novak's story
because he's like that student/co-worker who misses a lot of work, but
always has a ton of excuses handy, more obscure and exotic with each
new occurrence- the proverbial boy who cried wolf. The fact that he
couldn't even explain his symptoms when asked about them, then got
angry and defensive about the question, is also highly suspect. He
just always has some weird ailment to explain his poor results, then a
miracle cure to explain his sudden great results months later. That
kind of pattern is suspicious no matter which way you cut it. | f*********e
发帖数: 8453 | 3 这个质疑贴很没水准啊。太长了，随便扫了扫。好像就是说为什么我德现在可以连续打
长比赛不累，以前累。
【在 b*****o 的大作中提到】
: Djoker is doping too? and Nadal?
: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.tennis/browse_thread/t
: a156876756fec/1652657b44da9d2b
: Except that if he was truly allergic to gluten, we would have heard
: more about it by now. IF it was so debilitating that eliminating it
: from his diet resulted in a dramatic increase in his stamina,
: strength, physical recovery, focus and intensity, are we to believe
: that gluten was a barrier to his natural, latent superhuman
: abilities? He has played 8 long three set matches among the
: tournaments he's won, and after each one he goes right into another
| f*********e
发帖数: 8453 | 4 中性评价。大小威也是打man game。没人质疑嗑药。
【在 b*****o 的大作中提到】
: 第一次发帖，这个问题比较敏感，不知道斑竹对讨论下这个是个什么态度？
: Does tennis have a doping problem?
: any comments?
: 比较下，Sam Stosur和Marion Jones？
: "She kind of has, like, almost the game of a man. That's what it feels
: like."
: -Jelena Jankovic describing Samantha Stosur's masculine approach to the
: game of tennis.
| b*****o
发帖数: 332 | 5
没人质疑？从她俩出道以来，质疑声就没断过。
【在 f*********e 的大作中提到】
: 中性评价。大小威也是打man game。没人质疑嗑药。
| f*********e
发帖数: 8453 | 6 Oh really? I don't quite follow them because I like neither of them. Any
source? Thanks.
【在 b*****o 的大作中提到】
:
: 没人质疑？从她俩出道以来，质疑声就没断过。
| b*****o
发帖数: 332 | 7 just google "william doping", and you will see.. | b*****o
发帖数: 332 | 8 I have to give Djoker the benefit of doubt for now..even though his
transform from a mentally and physically weak player, to a superman who can
even out beat Nadal in his super physical, "retrieve all balls at any cost
and never run out of energy" game, in less than 2 month of time, give me
very hard time to believe that Gluten-free diet is the reason... come on, if
gluten is really the problem, why took them so long to diagnose it? the guy
has the money and resource to get the best doctor to help him, and took
them 4 years to figure this out?
Stosur, the look of her reminds me of Marion Jones, the first time I saw
Jones' picture back in 2000, I knew she was doping.. and 7 years later, we
knew for sure Jones is a doper, I am afraid, Stosur is too.. it just so much
on your face.. | f*********e
发帖数: 8453 | 9 Come on. You don't need to post it again. To me, it's just a wild guess.
can
if
guy
much
【在 b*****o 的大作中提到】
: I have to give Djoker the benefit of doubt for now..even though his
: transform from a mentally and physically weak player, to a superman who can
: even out beat Nadal in his super physical, "retrieve all balls at any cost
: and never run out of energy" game, in less than 2 month of time, give me
: very hard time to believe that Gluten-free diet is the reason... come on, if
: gluten is really the problem, why took them so long to diagnose it? the guy
: has the money and resource to get the best doctor to help him, and took
: them 4 years to figure this out?
: Stosur, the look of her reminds me of Marion Jones, the first time I saw
: Jones' picture back in 2000, I knew she was doping.. and 7 years later, we
| b*****o
发帖数: 332 | 10
It's a guess for sure, as no one has any evidence against him or any top
tennis player.
But I won't call it "wild" though, I used to think tennis is clean, but
Stosur and William sisters have been so much on my face, if Jones was doping
, they are too..
【在 f*********e 的大作中提到】
: Come on. You don't need to post it again. To me, it's just a wild guess.
:
: can
: if
: guy
: much
| | | r******n
发帖数: 1665 | 11 I personally think in the USO '11 final, Nadal ran much more than Novak. One
of Novak's advantages is that he controls the baseline and moves the
opponents back and forth.
Novak beat Nadal six times. That means Nadal went as far as Novak and played
as much as Navak. Was Nadal doping too? | b*****o
发帖数: 332 | 12 How long have you been following Tennis?
Nadal has been the #1 suspect of doping since he turned pro..
Just google Nadal doping, there are tons of information online and
debate
has been going on and on for the last almost 10 years.
The reason Djoker has been put under spotlight is because he constantly
beat to top doping suspect in his own game.. which is very fishy..
Djoker is essentially the same type of player as Nadal, defensive
baseliner who go down saving every single ball at all cost and never get
tired until his opponent get tired and make a mistake. The difference is
Novak is better than Nadal in every aspect of the game technically, but
that doesn't make him the same type of player as Federer is..
By saying that, I have to admit, there is no concrete evidence against
Nadal or Djoker whatsoever, but so was before Jones was caught, Jones
passed more than 160 times of drug test, and she came out clean every
single time until she was caught in 2007..
Novak.
One
played
/
【在 r******n 的大作中提到】
: I personally think in the USO '11 final, Nadal ran much more than Novak. One
: of Novak's advantages is that he controls the baseline and moves the
: opponents back and forth.
: Novak beat Nadal six times. That means Nadal went as far as Novak and played
: as much as Navak. Was Nadal doping too?
| a********g
发帖数: 4 | 13 These are the points that I got from your post:
1. Nadal is #1 doping suspect, because he plays defensive tennis and is
physically better than most players on tour.
2. Djoker keeps beating Nadal this year in a non-Federer way, so he is a
suspect now as well.
It seems like the only legit way to play tennis is the way that Roger plays,
otherwise either you have to suck or you are doping.
Have to say, even Roger has more respect to Rafa than you do. You have the
right to say whatever you want, I just can't agree with any of it.
【在 b*****o 的大作中提到】
: How long have you been following Tennis?
: Nadal has been the #1 suspect of doping since he turned pro..
: Just google Nadal doping, there are tons of information online and
: debate
: has been going on and on for the last almost 10 years.
: The reason Djoker has been put under spotlight is because he constantly
: beat to top doping suspect in his own game.. which is very fishy..
: Djoker is essentially the same type of player as Nadal, defensive
: baseliner who go down saving every single ball at all cost and never get
: tired until his opponent get tired and make a mistake. The difference is
| n********r
发帖数: 4558 | 14 这种东西多半是没有真凭实据的猜测，点到为止，多说无益。
【在 b*****o 的大作中提到】
: 第一次发帖，这个问题比较敏感，不知道斑竹对讨论下这个是个什么态度？
: Does tennis have a doping problem?
: any comments?
: 比较下，Sam Stosur和Marion Jones？
: "She kind of has, like, almost the game of a man. That's what it feels
: like."
: -Jelena Jankovic describing Samantha Stosur's masculine approach to the
: game of tennis.
| l**a
发帖数: 12455 | 15 我就不明白了，纳达尔打球打了快10年了，如果一直嗑药怎么还没被发现呢？真以为
atp药检的官员都是打酱油的？
【在 n********r 的大作中提到】
: 这种东西多半是没有真凭实据的猜测，点到为止，多说无益。
| h*******s
发帖数: 8454 | 16 2010年男球员一共被检查了1183人次，估计豆豆怎么也要轮上个三次五次十次八次的
没查出来肯定是没问题了
其实讨论药挺无聊的，只要打的好，爱吃啥吃啥呗~
【在 l**a 的大作中提到】
: 我就不明白了，纳达尔打球打了快10年了，如果一直嗑药怎么还没被发现呢？真以为
: atp药检的官员都是打酱油的？
| l**a
发帖数: 12455 | 17 问题是有的人不是这个逻辑，我就是觉得挺奇怪的，人家打球好就说人家嗑药，好笑不
好笑
【在 h*******s 的大作中提到】
: 2010年男球员一共被检查了1183人次，估计豆豆怎么也要轮上个三次五次十次八次的
: 没查出来肯定是没问题了
: 其实讨论药挺无聊的，只要打的好，爱吃啥吃啥呗~
| h*******s
发帖数: 8454 | 18 姑娘你re错了。。。
【在 l**a 的大作中提到】
: 问题是有的人不是这个逻辑，我就是觉得挺奇怪的，人家打球好就说人家嗑药，好笑不
: 好笑
| h*******s
发帖数: 8454 | 19 其实费德勒才是网球史上最大的邪恶球员，虽然没嗑药
但是他根本就不是人类，是个机器人
要不然怎么跑动没声音，打球没表情
要不然mirka为啥看比赛的时候总用手机遥控
【在 l**a 的大作中提到】
: 问题是有的人不是这个逻辑，我就是觉得挺奇怪的，人家打球好就说人家嗑药，好笑不
: 好笑
| l**a
发帖数: 12455 | 20 我错了。。。
【在 h*******s 的大作中提到】
: 姑娘你re错了。。。
| | | l**a
发帖数: 12455 | 21 赞 打球没表情
可是你无法解释mirka出现前的roger是怎么打球的！
【在 h*******s 的大作中提到】
: 其实费德勒才是网球史上最大的邪恶球员，虽然没嗑药
: 但是他根本就不是人类，是个机器人
: 要不然怎么跑动没声音，打球没表情
: 要不然mirka为啥看比赛的时候总用手机遥控
| h*******s
发帖数: 8454 | 22 以前是专人遥控的，后来需要给个身份，就让mirka上了
毕竟也是网球运动员，经验比较丰富
【在 l**a 的大作中提到】
: 赞 打球没表情
: 可是你无法解释mirka出现前的roger是怎么打球的！
| c****t
发帖数: 5452 | 23 并不是支持lz的观点，但是你完全不了解禁药的问题，运动员特别是大牌用的药肯定是
现在检不出的，这就是为什么大型比赛尿样要保存很多年的原因，所以你说一个人现在
没有被检出来不能说明什么。不过，我还真不知道atp保存尿样不，如果不保存，就永
远只有阴谋论了
【在 l**a 的大作中提到】
: 我就不明白了，纳达尔打球打了快10年了，如果一直嗑药怎么还没被发现呢？真以为
: atp药检的官员都是打酱油的？
| l**a
发帖数: 12455 | | c****t
发帖数: 5452 | 25 当然，网球就是奥运一个单项而已。说不定人atp为了收视率像mlb一样就是要专门制造
超人来比赛
【在 l**a 的大作中提到】
: 看来atp不是大型比赛
| l**a
发帖数: 12455 | | c****t
发帖数: 5452 | 27 跟想像力什么关系，给你补充一点知识而已，不懂就不要在这装13了
【在 l**a 的大作中提到】
: 想象力不服不行啊，不管你服不服，我是服了
| l**a
发帖数: 12455 | | b*****o
发帖数: 332 | 29
For the record, in 2010, the ITF conducted the following blood tests:
In-Competition testing - Blood (only conducted at Wimbledon, Roland
Garros,
US Open, and Australian Open):
Men 72
Women 68
Total 140
Out-of-Competition testing - Blood
Men 6
Women 4
Total 10
对禁药而言，血检比尿检重要，out-of-competition is far more important than in-
competition test，原因大家都知道的，不过你肯定不知道.. :)
对讨论这个问题是比较无聊，这个我同意，就是想看看像我这样无聊的人多不多，看来
不多。。
我其实对男子吃药没啥大意见，
不过女子的，
就很讨厌了
一帮肌肉女独步网坛，
太恶心了 :-)
【在 h*******s 的大作中提到】
: 2010年男球员一共被检查了1183人次，估计豆豆怎么也要轮上个三次五次十次八次的
: 没查出来肯定是没问题了
: 其实讨论药挺无聊的，只要打的好，爱吃啥吃啥呗~
| b*****o
发帖数: 332 | 30
对，他们就是打酱油的：
In 2010, the ITF posted this document.
The following players were listed with an Out-of-Competition test for which
there was a zero in each testing column (urine, blood, EPO):
1. Griffioen, Jiske 21/03/2009
2. Moya, Carlos 16/05/2009
3. Benneteau, Julien 20/05/2009
4. Karlovic, Ivo 31/05/2009
5. Stubbs, Rennae 12/06/2010
6. Nadal, Rafael 14/06/2009
7. Bolelli, Simone 15/06/2009
8. Williams, Serena 16/06/2009
9. Williams, Venus 16/06/2009
10. Acasuso, Jose 17/06/2009
11. Gravellier, Florence 18/06/2009
12. Mauresmo, Amelie 01/07/2009
13. Mathieu, Paul-Henri 07/07/2009
14. Sharapova, Maria 09/07/2009
15. Simon, Gilles 09/07/2009
16. Nestor, Daniel 15/07/2009
17. Vaidisova, Nicole 24/07/2009
18. Roddick, Andy 15/08/2009
19. Walraven, Sharon 18/08/2009
20. Huber, Liezel 24/08/2009
21. Del Potro, Juan Martin 26/08/2009
22. Hantuchova, Daniela 26/08/2009
23. Pous-Tio, Laura 29/08/2009
24. Cirstea, Sorana 14/09/2009
25. Wawrinka, Stanislas 15/09/2009
26. Anderrson, Johan 19/09/2009
27. Ferrer, David 22/09/2009
28. Jankovic, Jelena 22/09/2009
29. Ancic, Mario 23/09/2009
30. Black, Cara 18/10/2009
31. Raymond, Lisa 19/10/2009
32. Federer, Roger 28/10/2009
33. Pironkova, Tszvetana 31/10/2009
34. Wozniak, Aleksandra 01/11/2009
35. Andreev, Igor 11/11/2009
36. Chakvetadze, Anna 12/11/2009
37. Nieminen, Jarkko 14/11/2009
38. Tursunov, Dmitry 14/11/2009
39. Lopez, Feliciano 16/11/2009
40. Peer, Shahar 17/11/2009
41. Bhupathi, Mahesh 21/11/2009
42. Pavlyuchenkova, Anastasia 22/11/2009
43. Wozniacki, Caroline 23/11/2009
44. Fish, Mardy 24/11/2009
45. Querrey, Sam 24/11/2009
46. Bartoli, Marion 01/12/2009
47. Simon, Gilles 08/12/2009
48. Kohlschreiber, Philipp 21/12/2009
49. Koellerer, Daniel 30/12/2009
When asked about the triple zero entries the ITF responded:
The results you are referring to were missions that resulted, for whatever
reason, in no sample being collected.
The ITF then replaced the document above, with this one. The triple zero
entries are removed. In place of the missing tests the document states that:
"a further 49 out-of-competition missions were conducted where where no
sample was collected. These included missions that were conducted outside
the player's nominated 60 minute time-slot, or where the athlete was
unavailable."
The question is: Why were the atheletes unavailable (or whatever other
reason no sample was collected)? Why did the ITF pull the original document
and then replace it with a version where the no sample missions are deleted?
How many times did this happen in 2008 and 2010? Why has the ITF stopped
publishing testing statistics that indicate when a specific player was
tested?
The media coverage on this? Still waiting. There are a lot of top players on
this list, why has the media shown no interest?
【在 l**a 的大作中提到】
: 我就不明白了，纳达尔打球打了快10年了，如果一直嗑药怎么还没被发现呢？真以为
: atp药检的官员都是打酱油的？
| | | b*****o
发帖数: 332 | 31 看来我一上来就得罪了豆粉，和德粉，对不住！
我既非豆粉，也非德粉，更不是费粉，我只是个网粉， has been following the sport for
many years since 2000, and I think:
Pro tennnis is not a sport no more, kids, it is a BUSINESS， multi-billion
dollar business, when there is money involved, corruption will be there,
enjoy your hero as long as you can.. just don't be surprised when one day
you find out maybe your hero is no more than a cheater and an energized
bunny who can put up a exciting show called professional tennis..
remember you heard from here first.. :-) | l**a
发帖数: 12455 | 32 恩，我觉得你说得还挺reasonable的，其实都是半斤八两
sport for
【在 b*****o 的大作中提到】
: 看来我一上来就得罪了豆粉，和德粉，对不住！
: 我既非豆粉，也非德粉，更不是费粉，我只是个网粉， has been following the sport for
: many years since 2000, and I think:
: Pro tennnis is not a sport no more, kids, it is a BUSINESS， multi-billion
: dollar business, when there is money involved, corruption will be there,
: enjoy your hero as long as you can.. just don't be surprised when one day
: you find out maybe your hero is no more than a cheater and an energized
: bunny who can put up a exciting show called professional tennis..
: remember you heard from here first.. :-)
| b*****o
发帖数: 332 | 33
我上来冒个泡，就是被肌肉女给搞伤了，以为小薇走后会好点，没想到又来个Sam，没
希望了。。。
想想女子的能嗑药，男子的会好到哪里去？
网球早晚有天要出环法自行车赛那种丑闻的。。
接着潜水了。。 :(
【在 l**a 的大作中提到】
: 恩，我觉得你说得还挺reasonable的，其实都是半斤八两
:
: sport for
| n********r
发帖数: 4558 | 34 请注意用词
【在 c****t 的大作中提到】
: 跟想像力什么关系，给你补充一点知识而已，不懂就不要在这装13了
| a**s
发帖数: 9606 | 35 有些药现在不是禁药(可能因为查不出来或者太新), 将来也很可能会被禁.
你对比现在和10年前禁药列表就能看出来. 其实主要是守规矩不吃的人比
较吃亏而已, 如果不禁止都吃也就公平了 :P 不过场面将比较难看, 女子
比赛个个都是肌肉女, 男子比赛个个都是打不死的变态. Isner的变态长盘
记录很快就会破掉, 而且估计会有很多走火入魔在场上挂掉...
【在 h*******s 的大作中提到】
: 2010年男球员一共被检查了1183人次，估计豆豆怎么也要轮上个三次五次十次八次的
: 没查出来肯定是没问题了
: 其实讨论药挺无聊的，只要打的好，爱吃啥吃啥呗~
| g****e
发帖数: 930 | 36 总算有一两个明白人
【在 a**s 的大作中提到】
: 有些药现在不是禁药(可能因为查不出来或者太新), 将来也很可能会被禁.
: 你对比现在和10年前禁药列表就能看出来. 其实主要是守规矩不吃的人比
: 较吃亏而已, 如果不禁止都吃也就公平了 :P 不过场面将比较难看, 女子
: 比赛个个都是肌肉女, 男子比赛个个都是打不死的变态. Isner的变态长盘
: 记录很快就会破掉, 而且估计会有很多走火入魔在场上挂掉...
| g****e
发帖数: 930 | 37 co赞没表情！比那些挥拳捶胸的酷多了。
【在 l**a 的大作中提到】
: 赞 打球没表情
: 可是你无法解释mirka出现前的roger是怎么打球的！
| w******n
发帖数: 13172 | 38 打擦边球肯定是有的，但要是说系统性的吃禁药，难度比较大 | u*********e
发帖数: 9616 | 39 No, I did not hear this from you first. This has been discussed million
times. You are not the first.
sport for
【在 b*****o 的大作中提到】
: 看来我一上来就得罪了豆粉，和德粉，对不住！
: 我既非豆粉，也非德粉，更不是费粉，我只是个网粉， has been following the sport for
: many years since 2000, and I think:
: Pro tennnis is not a sport no more, kids, it is a BUSINESS， multi-billion
: dollar business, when there is money involved, corruption will be there,
: enjoy your hero as long as you can.. just don't be surprised when one day
: you find out maybe your hero is no more than a cheater and an energized
: bunny who can put up a exciting show called professional tennis..
: remember you heard from here first.. :-)
| b*****o
发帖数: 332 | 40
ok, whatever... :-)
I said that as a joke.. LOL..
u r really uncommon.. :-)
【在 u*********e 的大作中提到】
: No, I did not hear this from you first. This has been discussed million
: times. You are not the first.
:
: sport for
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