f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 1 2d3d at MP, limp after 3 limpers, 2 guys limp after me, SB/BB in too,
basically family pot.
flop: Ad5d8
check to me, i bet $8, BTN (normal) raises to $30, all fold.
i have $153 left, he covers me.
比较棘手，尤其是有player坐后面，看了他两眼，他那张扑克脸绷得紧紧的，不置可否
，靠，倒是给踢一脚啥的？
象了半天，觉得call之后还有123，可能还有玩头，就弱call了。
turn: 6d
压了$63，BTN很犹豫了1分钟，trash talk，最后决定push，俺也无话。
river: 9d。
靠！
还好，BTN是55。然后挖苦俺半天说你3d high flush也这么干？
player出来批评俺太弱，flop直接干就是了，属于无脑推。 | s*********r
发帖数: 4210 | 2 can player explain his thought on the flop pushing? I need to learn this
play too. thanks. | p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 3 no. the the flop is Ad5d2(off suit). you have a pair with straight flush
draw.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 2d3d at MP, limp after 3 limpers, 2 guys limp after me, SB/BB in too,
: basically family pot.
: flop: Ad5d8
: check to me, i bet $8, BTN (normal) raises to $30, all fold.
: i have $153 left, he covers me.
: 比较棘手，尤其是有player坐后面，看了他两眼，他那张扑克脸绷得紧紧的，不置可否
: ，靠，倒是给踢一脚啥的？
: 象了半天，觉得call之后还有123，可能还有玩头，就弱call了。
: turn: 6d
: 压了$63，BTN很犹豫了1分钟，trash talk，最后决定push，俺也无话。
| p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 4 if I say anything-including Chinese , you hand could be called dead.
next time , I will kick you though. hehe. forgot to do that. :P
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 2d3d at MP, limp after 3 limpers, 2 guys limp after me, SB/BB in too,
: basically family pot.
: flop: Ad5d8
: check to me, i bet $8, BTN (normal) raises to $30, all fold.
: i have $153 left, he covers me.
: 比较棘手，尤其是有player坐后面，看了他两眼，他那张扑克脸绷得紧紧的，不置可否
: ，靠，倒是给踢一脚啥的？
: 象了半天，觉得call之后还有123，可能还有玩头，就弱call了。
: turn: 6d
: 压了$63，BTN很犹豫了1分钟，trash talk，最后决定push，俺也无话。
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 5 好象是这样的，呵呵，旁观者清啊。
【在 p****r 的大作中提到】
: if I say anything-including Chinese , you hand could be called dead.
:
: next time , I will kick you though. hehe. forgot to do that. :P
| s*********r
发帖数: 4210 | 6 player suggested to push allin on the flop? | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 7 低头说，系这样的。
【在 s*********r 的大作中提到】
: player suggested to push allin on the flop?
| p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 8 fryking's hand can not be in bad shape against any villian holding and
the effective stack is not too deep.
The last hand you want to see from villian is that he has higher flush
draw, like KdTd. The push can push most one pair hand out of the pot and did
not give higher flush draw odds to call as well
For our hand we want to see two cards as well, if the turn is blank
, we will have a tough time to decide what do do. Also, our hand is hard to
get paid if we hit.
So with folding equality,shoving on the flop is best play, IMHO.
【在 s*********r 的大作中提到】
: can player explain his thought on the flop pushing? I need to learn this
: play too. thanks.
| s*********r
发帖数: 4210 | 9 so, by pushing on the flop makes decision-making easier for self, but
tougher decision making for the villian? I guess this villian has one pair.
actually, I had couple times that villian bet on the flop with a big flush
draw, and I had made hands at that time. so I guess I should raised/pushed
instead calling the bet. | T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 10 Those hands are typical at cash game.
I don't think it is an automatic shove against a raise there. Just like
anything in poker, there is grey area.
I will say what type of opponents and how big is the folding equity are two
key factors in my decision.
Amazingly, there is not many one pair hand btn can choose to raise with,
assume he is an average player. Since he limped at btn, unless he is totally
a weak tight, we can put less weight on he holding Ak, AQ, AJ. And normal
player probaly won't raise that much with the rest of Ax hand. And you can
throw the rest of the pocket pairs out of the window.
So that left a lot of two pairs and set in his range, or even straight, and
big flush draw. Against his range, we are at least 2:3 underdog and we will
be a big dog and nearly drawing dead against big flush. And the way he
raised, indicating he has a strong hand, and we may not get the fold equity
we'd like.
The real danger, IMO, is the tiny flush draw. In multi-way limped pot, we
have to always consider the posiblity that sb holding a higher flush draw,
With a flush draw this small, we could almost drawing dead and we may not
even know it.
It will be a different story if we holding nut flush draw (or big flush dr)
and straight draw, in this case, we could even add high cards as our outs, and
considering opponents could raise with a smaller flush draw, shove on the flop
makes more sense.
All in all, I thought Frykings played this hands well. Calling is a right
play IMO. I just hate to go all-in with tiny flush draw and str draw and
count on the luck to hit my draw in such a big pot. Espeically if I hit my
flush draw, it may not even be good. In Frykings case, if villian held AxKd,
he will be screwed.
The hand I described in my AC trip is another case of ppl play their draw
too aggressively. The guy go all-in with str and flush dr and got called by
nut flush dr, both missed and nut flush won with A high
I'd also add that: I think calling is right play, also because even we
called the $24 dollars raise, we still leave well over 2/3 of stack
untouched, leave us un-committed to the pot, if we didn't hit draw, not
shame of folding. There is always better spot to put all our money in, that is
the beauty of the cash game. | | | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 11 很好！
two
totally
【在 T*********k 的大作中提到】
: Those hands are typical at cash game.
: I don't think it is an automatic shove against a raise there. Just like
: anything in poker, there is grey area.
: I will say what type of opponents and how big is the folding equity are two
: key factors in my decision.
: Amazingly, there is not many one pair hand btn can choose to raise with,
: assume he is an average player. Since he limped at btn, unless he is totally
: a weak tight, we can put less weight on he holding Ak, AQ, AJ. And normal
: player probaly won't raise that much with the rest of Ax hand. And you can
: throw the rest of the pocket pairs out of the window.
| p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 12 for the less than 100 BB effective stack, I would still like a shove there
, just IMHO.
two
totally
【在 T*********k 的大作中提到】
: Those hands are typical at cash game.
: I don't think it is an automatic shove against a raise there. Just like
: anything in poker, there is grey area.
: I will say what type of opponents and how big is the folding equity are two
: key factors in my decision.
: Amazingly, there is not many one pair hand btn can choose to raise with,
: assume he is an average player. Since he limped at btn, unless he is totally
: a weak tight, we can put less weight on he holding Ak, AQ, AJ. And normal
: player probaly won't raise that much with the rest of Ax hand. And you can
: throw the rest of the pocket pairs out of the window.
| H****r
发帖数: 2801 | 13
这手回放在flop的胜率：
36.46% 对 62.63%， Tie~1%
仍然难说那种玩法最佳， allin可能是最简单有效的做法；而假设flop没有allin而
turn上没出4或者方片那这手就困难了
just my 2cents
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 2d3d at MP, limp after 3 limpers, 2 guys limp after me, SB/BB in too,
: basically family pot.
: flop: Ad5d8
: check to me, i bet $8, BTN (normal) raises to $30, all fold.
: i have $153 left, he covers me.
: 比较棘手，尤其是有player坐后面，看了他两眼，他那张扑克脸绷得紧紧的，不置可否
: ，靠，倒是给踢一脚啥的？
: 象了半天，觉得call之后还有123，可能还有玩头，就弱call了。
: turn: 6d
: 压了$63，BTN很犹豫了1分钟，trash talk，最后决定push，俺也无话。
| s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 14 I always shove in this point for online 6-max games.
I think you already explain the two main reasons clearly.
1) If turn blank, you don't know what to do. It is very easy to be pushed
out
of pot.
2) If any straight card/ flush card hit on turn/river for you, you will not
get
max paid almost always because of 4 card straight or flush.
there
【在 p****r 的大作中提到】
: for the less than 100 BB effective stack, I would still like a shove there
: , just IMHO.
:
: two
: totally
| p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 15
not
yeah. maybe we should say we can not get paid unless we are beat, against
lots of decent players. Villian can easily have hands like KdJd. If a
diamond hit the turn , we are drawing to 1 outer. I think our shove on the
flop can push these hands out.
We have to give villian credit for holding 2 pairs or better for not
shoving, which is not always true. That case, we have to give up most time
if a blank hit the turn.
【在 s*******o 的大作中提到】
: I always shove in this point for online 6-max games.
: I think you already explain the two main reasons clearly.
: 1) If turn blank, you don't know what to do. It is very easy to be pushed
: out
: of pot.
: 2) If any straight card/ flush card hit on turn/river for you, you will not
: get
: max paid almost always because of 4 card straight or flush.
:
: there
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