W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 1 out play 乐。
UTG with JJ.
I raise 8$ utg. 3 callers. 1 old guy utg+1 relatively tight. I bluffed him
once on the river, he snap folded. He also flat from blind vs another guy
with Js earlier. check raised flop with a middle set (KJ8 flush draw board)
to 70$ and bet 70$ on the turn with a blank and the other guy folded.
flop 4h4d7h. I bet 25$ old guy calls. LP fish calls.
turn 4c. can't complain this card really. Was a good card for me. I checked
. Old guy bet 35$ fish fold. I call.
river 8h. now 3 heart on the board. I checked again. Old guy put in 100$.
what do you think he have?
这牌我玩得太差了。 你们觉得应该怎么玩？ |
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 2 不久以后又是这老头。
I raised 10$ from utg again with AQo. He called and 2 other caller.
flop KsJh10s. nut flop. I lead 30$. he called. 1 other call. 1 fold.
turn was Qd. I said "that is a terrible card for me!" A smart ass on the
table said "may not be for others" then I bet 100$. everyone laughed. Old
guys called. fish folded. He obviously had an A. I was only worried not to
get freerolled. river 9 off suit. I shoved the rest and he called with AKo.
Terrible card for me on the turn exactly. I did not lie.
有时候没办法， 就是赢不了桌上某个人的钱。 风水问题？ |
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 3 88 for first hand? hehe this is 命 |
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 4 he has total air and is playing you all the way.
your turn and river checks confuse him, and he thinks he could take it down.
him
checked
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: out play 乐。
: UTG with JJ.
: I raise 8$ utg. 3 callers. 1 old guy utg+1 relatively tight. I bluffed him
: once on the river, he snap folded. He also flat from blind vs another guy
: with Js earlier. check raised flop with a middle set (KJ8 flush draw board)
: to 70$ and bet 70$ on the turn with a blank and the other guy folded.
: flop 4h4d7h. I bet 25$ old guy calls. LP fish calls.
: turn 4c. can't complain this card really. Was a good card for me. I checked
: . Old guy bet 35$ fish fold. I call.
: river 8h. now 3 heart on the board. I checked again. Old guy put in 100$.
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 5 I said "that is a terrible card for me!" A smart ass on the
table said "may not be for others" then I bet 100$
--------------------
laoshi, stop talking sht and then bet this big, lol, such a reliable tell
which i used a lot before.
.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 不久以后又是这老头。
: I raised 10$ from utg again with AQo. He called and 2 other caller.
: flop KsJh10s. nut flop. I lead 30$. he called. 1 other call. 1 fold.
: turn was Qd. I said "that is a terrible card for me!" A smart ass on the
: table said "may not be for others" then I bet 100$. everyone laughed. Old
: guys called. fish folded. He obviously had an A. I was only worried not to
: get freerolled. river 9 off suit. I shoved the rest and he called with AKo.
: Terrible card for me on the turn exactly. I did not lie.
: 有时候没办法， 就是赢不了桌上某个人的钱。 风水问题？
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 6 what talking shit? I was literally upset with the turn card. level 1. no
reverse tell or anything.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: I said "that is a terrible card for me!" A smart ass on the
: table said "may not be for others" then I bet 100$
: --------------------
: laoshi, stop talking sht and then bet this big, lol, such a reliable tell
: which i used a lot before.
:
: .
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 7 what do you think he has? 猜对给你5个包子。 猜不对你给我5个？
down.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: he has total air and is playing you all the way.
: your turn and river checks confuse him, and he thinks he could take it down.
:
: him
: checked
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 8 给你几个选择：
1)4x
2)flush
3)straight flush
4)77
5)88
6)total air
7)其他.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: what do you think he has? 猜对给你5个包子。 猜不对你给我5个？
:
: down.
|
s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 9 TT or QQ?
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 给你几个选择：
: 1)4x
: 2)flush
: 3)straight flush
: 4)77
: 5)88
: 6)total air
: 7)其他.
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 10 好.把这也加上让fryking 选.
谁还有其他选择?
1)4x
2)flush
3)straight flush
4)77
5)88
6)TT
7)QQ
8)total air (trip 4s with kicker)
9)其他,请列明.
【在 s*******o 的大作中提到】
: TT or QQ?
|
|
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 11 lol, nowadays, i don't:
1) talk at all and pretend i don't speak much english at all;
2) show down, unless i have to.
talking, tanking, acting, in pain, and then betting big, well, man, they
know too.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: what talking shit? I was literally upset with the turn card. level 1. no
: reverse tell or anything.
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 12 i only have 2 baozi, i quit, lol.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 好.把这也加上让fryking 选.
: 谁还有其他选择?
: 1)4x
: 2)flush
: 3)straight flush
: 4)77
: 5)88
: 6)TT
: 7)QQ
: 8)total air (trip 4s with kicker)
|
T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 13 Don't see that happening in NL 1/2 game. Those plays are just too fancy for
live small stake players, even for those regulars to make. They don't have
that kind of read and they usually don't have the guts to make big stone
cold bluff.
Especially those tight old farts. It will be a terrible play on NL 1/2 table
anyway. Do you think most of NL 1/2 fish are capable to laydown JJs on
44478 board?
I will think the old guy have a hand. How strong is the hand depends on that
players caliber.
77, 88, 4x definitely in his range. Although I will put a little raise when
I have 4x and flop trip while flush draw on board, a lot of guys will slow
play trips anyway.
99s, TTs, 78s fit most of NL1/2 players profile as well. They think an
overpair or top 2 pair on the board will be good enough to give a lot
actions.
MM mentioned he has slow played JJs OOP before and give big actions after
flop, so for player like him, QQs, KKs, AAs couldn't be ruled out. Although
I will never slow play AA KK, QQs in multiway, especially after flop when
there is a flush draw on board. But since the turn give him full house, and
river he definitely will try to bet big for value.
I will take a chance vote for QQs, KKs or AAs. More lean toward QQs since I
still think most of ppl will re-raise with KK, or AAs.
I will think he got paid off since he played that hand deceptively.
down.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: he has total air and is playing you all the way.
: your turn and river checks confuse him, and he thinks he could take it down.
:
: him
: checked
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 14 That is exactly what I do normally. No talking in a hand. (didn't I tell you
not to trash talk on the poker table before). This one is an only exception
. I was a little upset
with the turn card and since I can not check to give a free card. I think
my hands is face up no matter what I bet here on the turn. Really does not
matter.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: lol, nowadays, i don't:
: 1) talk at all and pretend i don't speak much english at all;
: 2) show down, unless i have to.
: talking, tanking, acting, in pain, and then betting big, well, man, they
: know too.
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 15 就赌2包子。 来吧。选！
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: i only have 2 baozi, i quit, lol.
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 16 no, i know bankroll management well, never go all-in without the nuts!!!
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 就赌2包子。 来吧。选！
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 17 ft, i still remember the first time i saw a dude, he's standing up and
talking loud at the table in caesars... was that exception too? lol.
you
exception
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: That is exactly what I do normally. No talking in a hand. (didn't I tell you
: not to trash talk on the poker table before). This one is an only exception
: . I was a little upset
: with the turn card and since I can not check to give a free card. I think
: my hands is face up no matter what I bet here on the turn. Really does not
: matter.
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 18 minor edit. the JJ hand. he check raise the flop with a middle set of Js.
missed a little detail about flop board structure
for
table
that
when
【在 T*********k 的大作中提到】
: Don't see that happening in NL 1/2 game. Those plays are just too fancy for
: live small stake players, even for those regulars to make. They don't have
: that kind of read and they usually don't have the guts to make big stone
: cold bluff.
: Especially those tight old farts. It will be a terrible play on NL 1/2 table
: anyway. Do you think most of NL 1/2 fish are capable to laydown JJs on
: 44478 board?
: I will think the old guy have a hand. How strong is the hand depends on that
: players caliber.
: 77, 88, 4x definitely in his range. Although I will put a little raise when
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 19 in between hand i still talk. but I never talk while playing a hand.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: ft, i still remember the first time i saw a dude, he's standing up and
: talking loud at the table in caesars... was that exception too? lol.
:
: you
: exception
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 20 fryking 你还选不选？有加了两个提议。
我两个包子赌你half of the Bank roll， 一个包子
1)4x
2)flush
3)straight flush
4)77
5)88
6)TT
7)QQ
8)KK
9)AA
10total air (trip 4s with kicker)
11)其他,请列明. |
|
|
c******q
发帖数: 456 | |
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 22 no, the more you talk, the more it feels like a trap for my baozi, i fold.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: fryking 你还选不选？有加了两个提议。
: 我两个包子赌你half of the Bank roll， 一个包子
: 1)4x
: 2)flush
: 3)straight flush
: 4)77
: 5)88
: 6)TT
: 7)QQ
: 8)KK
|
s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 23 关键问题是MM老师怎么证明你说的是真的？
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: fryking 你还选不选？有加了两个提议。
: 我两个包子赌你half of the Bank roll， 一个包子
: 1)4x
: 2)flush
: 3)straight flush
: 4)77
: 5)88
: 6)TT
: 7)QQ
: 8)KK
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 24 fryking 不愿公证, . 算了.不玩了. 饼干的88也没猜对, 我把WB 还给你了.
【在 s*******o 的大作中提到】
: 关键问题是MM老师怎么证明你说的是真的？
|
p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 25 77/QQ? bet turn and check river??
him
)
checked
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: out play 乐。
: UTG with JJ.
: I raise 8$ utg. 3 callers. 1 old guy utg+1 relatively tight. I bluffed him
: once on the river, he snap folded. He also flat from blind vs another guy
: with Js earlier. check raised flop with a middle set (KJ8 flush draw board)
: to 70$ and bet 70$ on the turn with a blank and the other guy folded.
: flop 4h4d7h. I bet 25$ old guy calls. LP fish calls.
: turn 4c. can't complain this card really. Was a good card for me. I checked
: . Old guy bet 35$ fish fold. I call.
: river 8h. now 3 heart on the board. I checked again. Old guy put in 100$.
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 26 checking turn seems ok.
the optimal play for river against this player is probably bet/fold 65
【在 p**********1 的大作中提到】
: 77/QQ? bet turn and check river??
:
: him
: )
: checked
|
g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 27 No big difference here on the river. Save $35?
Folding to 100 bet with JJ in 180 pot is just not right in live game. Call
100 and that's it. Don't think it's a bad play at all.
There are not much value on the river. You can get some value from 78/99/10
by betting the river.You can get same value from 78/99/10 by not betting the
river and waiting him to bet(if he is a good player and likes to thin value
bet). Missed draw bluff on the river is also possible but very less likely
as trips on the board.
Donk out 65 on the river could cause huge damage if you 一时脑子发热 and
make the hero call to the river raise。
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: checking turn seems ok.
: the optimal play for river against this player is probably bet/fold 65
|
b*****t
发帖数: 52 | 28 u with a fullhouse, old man was trying to represent a draw on flush. I can't
put him on 88 or 77. If he has 88 or 77 then pay up.
him
)
checked
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: out play 乐。
: UTG with JJ.
: I raise 8$ utg. 3 callers. 1 old guy utg+1 relatively tight. I bluffed him
: once on the river, he snap folded. He also flat from blind vs another guy
: with Js earlier. check raised flop with a middle set (KJ8 flush draw board)
: to 70$ and bet 70$ on the turn with a blank and the other guy folded.
: flop 4h4d7h. I bet 25$ old guy calls. LP fish calls.
: turn 4c. can't complain this card really. Was a good card for me. I checked
: . Old guy bet 35$ fish fold. I call.
: river 8h. now 3 heart on the board. I checked again. Old guy put in 100$.
|
b*****t
发帖数: 52 | 29 3
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 给你几个选择：
: 1)4x
: 2)flush
: 3)straight flush
: 4)77
: 5)88
: 6)total air
: 7)其他.
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 30 mm老湿说了 turn没bet后悔了 那基本上river帮到对手了，又不是88，那只能往SF上猜
了，可是如果是个draw，turn上为什么还要推个小bet呢，不解了，请指点 |
|
|
g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 31 I guess mm lost this hand. But it should not change the way how to play this
hand. . Turn check is good. Whether check/call or bet/fold is slightly
different, but still both look fine to me. |
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 32 no, i guess mm won this hand, but over/under thought about the range and EV,
haha.
this
【在 g**s 的大作中提到】
: I guess mm lost this hand. But it should not change the way how to play this
: hand. . Turn check is good. Whether check/call or bet/fold is slightly
: different, but still both look fine to me.
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 33 of course I lost the hand. Turn is fine. River should be a bet/fold 65 as I
said. based on my assumption and read towards this player, i think the ev
difference between bet/fold and check call is at range of 35$-65$ depending
on the weights of his estimated range.
This is a huge difference! this is 2X of possible achievable hourly rate.
Imagine if we just make one decision like this correctly every trip we make
to the casion? you can do the math yourself on how much win rate we could
have improved. |
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 34 老大的read is way off.....
EV,
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: no, i guess mm won this hand, but over/under thought about the range and EV,
: haha.
:
: this
|
g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 35 Make sense.
But this also depends on
1. what's the % you will call the min raise on the river. Bet 65 and fold to
130 raise? Yes, you are able to fold it, but at what %? fold 100%?
2. what's the % you will make the hero call if you face a huge all-in raise
on the river. Most likly you will fold it but is it 100%?
3. How thin value bet this guy will make if they have 78/99/TT? Will he make
0 or 65 or 100?
Put all things together, it's not 35 any more. could be more or less.
anyway, 我肯定是猜对了。发两个包子吧。。。
赞精益求精！
I
depending
make
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: of course I lost the hand. Turn is fine. River should be a bet/fold 65 as I
: said. based on my assumption and read towards this player, i think the ev
: difference between bet/fold and check call is at range of 35$-65$ depending
: on the weights of his estimated range.
: This is a huge difference! this is 2X of possible achievable hourly rate.
: Imagine if we just make one decision like this correctly every trip we make
: to the casion? you can do the math yourself on how much win rate we could
: have improved.
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 36 你好像没猜他是啥牌啊。 怎么会猜对了？
不过既然你提了，就给你两个包子！
to
raise
make
【在 g**s 的大作中提到】
: Make sense.
: But this also depends on
: 1. what's the % you will call the min raise on the river. Bet 65 and fold to
: 130 raise? Yes, you are able to fold it, but at what %? fold 100%?
: 2. what's the % you will make the hero call if you face a huge all-in raise
: on the river. Most likly you will fold it but is it 100%?
: 3. How thin value bet this guy will make if they have 78/99/TT? Will he make
: 0 or 65 or 100?
: Put all things together, it's not 35 any more. could be more or less.
: anyway, 我肯定是猜对了。发两个包子吧。。。
|
G********r
发帖数: 666 | |
g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 38 Got it. Thanks!
Why do I need name the particular hand this guy had? What's the difference
here whether he had QQ or 88 or 5h6h?
To me, there is no difference even he had TT or 88, both are in his range
and I will play the same way--bet/fold or check/call on the river. I still
prefer check/call because of the turn check.
Where to draw the line to protect your stack/pot control or to extract the
max value is always questionable and tough especially out of position.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 你好像没猜他是啥牌啊。 怎么会猜对了？
: 不过既然你提了，就给你两个包子！
:
: to
: raise
: make
|
