p******a
发帖数: 975 | 1 This hand was played with a very good reg on ACR. Effective stack $110. Hero
button, villain MP.
Villain open raise 3bb. Hero call with AcJc. I think raise is also fine. If
I have AJo, I may inclined to raise a little bit more. Also, as said villain
is very good, I don't think I have edge in 3b pot. I'd rather keep the pot
small and play my position. BB calls.
Flop QcTs3c, check to hero. I have a very strong hand, nut flush draw+
gunshot straight draw + over card. Definitely bet for value. I bet $7 into $
9 pot. BB fold. MP villain raise to $26. I put villain on two pair or set,
which I think it's quite accurate giving his raise size and he checked
before. And I shoved thought I have enough equity, and he showed 33, and hit
a boat.
The mistake I made here was I thought straight flush draw against set was
slightly ahead, and flush draw against set had 40% equity. I was very very
surprised I still make such amateur type mistake after about 160k hands. I
was glad I made this mistake at NL100, since if I face the same decision
after move up, it will cost me several times more. Also this is why I think
one should pick good regs to play in lower limits, because only against good
players can one realize his leaks which will definitely cost him a lot more
in the future. |
T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 2 no offense, but you are still amateur unless you play poker for a living.
Nothing too wrong with this hand actually. Put your whole stack on a draw
and missed always make you feel lame. But like you said, you always have
enough equity on this hand.
Plus his raising made you hard to call also. If you call, basically you are
just paying $20 to see one card. He will ship on the turn any any blank make
your odds unfavorable. |
p******a
发帖数: 975 | 3 By "amateur", I mean someone really new to poker and only know the rules.
But no need to struggle on the meaning of this word, as long as you know
what I'm trying to say is that this mistake is stupid.
Vs unknown villain, shoving is very standard here. Even against this villain
I think shoving is fine too. The mistake I refer to is that not knowing
flush draw is huge underdog against set.
This mistake is the same as, for example, not knowing AQ has about 30%
equity against AK preflop. They should be something you learn by doing
pokerstove calculation within minutes. Not something you learn by spending $
100.
How to play this hand optimally is beyond the discussion of this post. I
need to post way more status about the villain to provide enough information
. I actually think bet fold on this flop against this villain is slightly
better, even though my hand seems to be super strong.
are
make
【在 T*********k 的大作中提到】
: no offense, but you are still amateur unless you play poker for a living.
: Nothing too wrong with this hand actually. Put your whole stack on a draw
: and missed always make you feel lame. But like you said, you always have
: enough equity on this hand.
: Plus his raising made you hard to call also. If you call, basically you are
: just paying $20 to see one card. He will ship on the turn any any blank make
: your odds unfavorable.
|
T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 4 Gut shot with nut flush draw aginst a set is 34.6% vs 65.% , Not quite 40%
but you are not far off |
p******a
发帖数: 975 | 5 yeah, but I thought I was ahead.
I thought only flush by itself had 40%
【在 T*********k 的大作中提到】
: Gut shot with nut flush draw aginst a set is 34.6% vs 65.% , Not quite 40%
: but you are not far off
|
p******a
发帖数: 975 | 6 Also, difference between playing a hand in a way with +10bb ev vs a way with
+7bb ev is huge.
I believe every reg that plays NL100 on ACR knows bet-shoving the flop with
the hand I have. If I can't do better, then I won't have any edge on them in
this case, meaning we will all lose to rake, meaning I should play NL50
instead.
My favorite quote from Brunson:"Poker is not about playing your cards, is
about playing your opponents." Knowing the "standard way" is not enough, one
always need to know more than his opponents in order to beat them.
are
make
【在 T*********k 的大作中提到】
: no offense, but you are still amateur unless you play poker for a living.
: Nothing too wrong with this hand actually. Put your whole stack on a draw
: and missed always make you feel lame. But like you said, you always have
: enough equity on this hand.
: Plus his raising made you hard to call also. If you call, basically you are
: just paying $20 to see one card. He will ship on the turn any any blank make
: your odds unfavorable.
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 7 good one!
with
with
in
one
【在 p******a 的大作中提到】
: Also, difference between playing a hand in a way with +10bb ev vs a way with
: +7bb ev is huge.
: I believe every reg that plays NL100 on ACR knows bet-shoving the flop with
: the hand I have. If I can't do better, then I won't have any edge on them in
: this case, meaning we will all lose to rake, meaning I should play NL50
: instead.
: My favorite quote from Brunson:"Poker is not about playing your cards, is
: about playing your opponents." Knowing the "standard way" is not enough, one
: always need to know more than his opponents in order to beat them.
:
|
c*****t
发帖数: 817 | 8 其实关键就是一句话: 不是每次拿到monster draw都需要play aggressively。但是这
些年人们都习惯于拿到强抽牌自动allin。
这牌你要是觉得没有fold equity。flop上简单一call的odds非常好。turn对手bet的
size选的不好的话。call的odds也很好。 |
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 9 这个river raise size 已经很大了。
在这个级别Raise pre, Check, check call, check big raise 是Nit reg 的nuts
line. 99% no bluff。
这牌其实和那天吵起来的牌很相似。
Hero
If
villain
pot
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 p******a 的大作中提到】
: This hand was played with a very good reg on ACR. Effective stack $110. Hero
: button, villain MP.
: Villain open raise 3bb. Hero call with AcJc. I think raise is also fine. If
: I have AJo, I may inclined to raise a little bit more. Also, as said villain
: is very good, I don't think I have edge in 3b pot. I'd rather keep the pot
: small and play my position. BB calls.
: Flop QcTs3c, check to hero. I have a very strong hand, nut flush draw+
: gunshot straight draw + over card. Definitely bet for value. I bet $7 into $
: 9 pot. BB fold. MP villain raise to $26. I put villain on two pair or set,
: which I think it's quite accurate giving his raise size and he checked
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 10 这里如果他river check raise overshove 100bb. AQ 都可与考虑fold.
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 这个river raise size 已经很大了。
: 在这个级别Raise pre, Check, check call, check big raise 是Nit reg 的nuts
: line. 99% no bluff。
: 这牌其实和那天吵起来的牌很相似。
:
: Hero
: If
: villain
: pot
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
|
|
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 11 Hmm， 上面两贴发错地方了。 是回另一个贴。 oops
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 这里如果他river check raise overshove 100bb. AQ 都可与考虑fold.
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 12 这牌信息不全，对手是good reg，怎么个good，数据是怎样的？你在对手眼里是怎么样
的image？
如果只是简单的说，你们都有good image，那只要看到自己有50%以上的equity，凶一
点的话，两个人就基本都进去了。但是，实际上，还存在的其他的好几种处理方法，并
且在很多情况下，看似不是standard的play往往能够保持甚至获得更多的价值。
还有，小popo，哥友情提示，你要处理好你的ego问题。想要打得更好，没错，想要尽
快升级，并且站到世界之巅，没错。但是，如果这种想法在将来的某一天，突然暴走，
比如一个tilt session让你打牌失控，或者一个长的upswing或者downswing，让你跃级
打牌，都是非常非常危险的事，你要时刻警醒，避免悲剧发生。
对于99%的玩家，poker都是没有捷径可以走的，因为打得太苦逼，保持一个良好的心态
，做好持久战的准备，在哥看来，是重中之重，是survive的前提。 |
p******a
发帖数: 975 | 13 No offense. But folding AQ is bad.
There is only one combination that beats you-- AA, and that's it, while he
can easily have TT,55,maybe even QT or Q5 in his range. Folding AQ is giving
away money.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 这里如果他river check raise overshove 100bb. AQ 都可与考虑fold.
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 14 mm老湿是说可以考虑，有这个possibility。如果对手是passive并靠向nitty side的话
，他能够over reshove 100bb的hand已经不多了 |
p******a
发帖数: 975 | 15 Yeah, I didn't post all the information about the villain, since that's too
much and not relevant to the topic. As long as you know villain is very good
in 3b pot (so I didn't 3b preflop), that's good enough.
Again, this post is not about optimizing the play in this pot (which is
highly based on villain's and my image, thus won't be too helpful either to
you or to me even if I post here), it's about "make mistakes when they are
cheap".
Thanks for your remind about the ego problem. It is very dangerous to
overestimate one's skill after a winning session or period in poker. Such
remind is always very helpful. I don't think I will ever jump to a limit
without having a solid win rate at the limit lower (well I jump to NL10
without playing NL2 and NL4, I guess). And considering how tough the game is
nowadays (the fact leatherass is playing NL200), there is absolutely no way
I will play any limit higher than that in near future.
I do have the ambition to challenge Isildur one day. If I can build up a 2m
bankroll. I am willing to spend 1m to challenge him one on one, playing 中国
象棋，乒乓球，or 大老二. He will have the privilege to pick one from these
three.
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: 这牌信息不全，对手是good reg，怎么个good，数据是怎样的？你在对手眼里是怎么样
: 的image？
: 如果只是简单的说，你们都有good image，那只要看到自己有50%以上的equity，凶一
: 点的话，两个人就基本都进去了。但是，实际上，还存在的其他的好几种处理方法，并
: 且在很多情况下，看似不是standard的play往往能够保持甚至获得更多的价值。
: 还有，小popo，哥友情提示，你要处理好你的ego问题。想要打得更好，没错，想要尽
: 快升级，并且站到世界之巅，没错。但是，如果这种想法在将来的某一天，突然暴走，
: 比如一个tilt session让你打牌失控，或者一个长的upswing或者downswing，让你跃级
: 打牌，都是非常非常危险的事，你要时刻警醒，避免悲剧发生。
: 对于99%的玩家，poker都是没有捷径可以走的，因为打得太苦逼，保持一个良好的心态
|
p******a
发帖数: 975 | 16 don't even 考虑。If he has AA, that's it. As long as he can shove with more
than 2 hands, it's a call.
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: mm老湿是说可以考虑，有这个possibility。如果对手是passive并靠向nitty side的话
: ，他能够over reshove 100bb的hand已经不多了
|
p******a
发帖数: 975 | 17 Another reason I need to move up fast is that I'm not as young as you and mm
thought. If I'm still in college, then that's fine.
Poker is like math. One needs to be good when he was young. Because when
people get old, they can take much less risk and be more difficult to dance
with variance.
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
: 这牌信息不全，对手是good reg，怎么个good，数据是怎样的？你在对手眼里是怎么样
: 的image？
: 如果只是简单的说，你们都有good image，那只要看到自己有50%以上的equity，凶一
: 点的话，两个人就基本都进去了。但是，实际上，还存在的其他的好几种处理方法，并
: 且在很多情况下，看似不是standard的play往往能够保持甚至获得更多的价值。
: 还有，小popo，哥友情提示，你要处理好你的ego问题。想要打得更好，没错，想要尽
: 快升级，并且站到世界之巅，没错。但是，如果这种想法在将来的某一天，突然暴走，
: 比如一个tilt session让你打牌失控，或者一个长的upswing或者downswing，让你跃级
: 打牌，都是非常非常危险的事，你要时刻警醒，避免悲剧发生。
: 对于99%的玩家，poker都是没有捷径可以走的，因为打得太苦逼，保持一个良好的心态
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 18 几岁了？
mm
dance
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 p******a 的大作中提到】
: Another reason I need to move up fast is that I'm not as young as you and mm
: thought. If I'm still in college, then that's fine.
: Poker is like math. One needs to be good when he was young. Because when
: people get old, they can take much less risk and be more difficult to dance
: with variance.
|
p******a
发帖数: 975 | 19 fifty five
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 几岁了？
:
: mm
: dance
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 20 八零后，脱脱的
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 几岁了？
:
: mm
: dance
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
|
|
|
p******a
发帖数: 975 | 21 Well, I check raise my age, you decide call or not
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 八零后，脱脱的
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 22 BSO, 55岁还有十七岁的心态。
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 p******a 的大作中提到】
: Well, I check raise my age, you decide call or not
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 23 跑题了。 老popo, 请继续发贴。
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: BSO, 55岁还有十七岁的心态。
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
|
p******a
发帖数: 975 | 24 grandpa needs some rest...
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 跑题了。 老popo, 请继续发贴。
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 25 55还不够impressive 小popo应该说八十八 |
