j*****7
发帖数: 10575 | 1 我假设你们有这个常识，不会把马丁路德也归为改革宗了。因为他自己有门派的，叫做
路德宗。
马丁路德关于预定论最著名的讲论：意志的捆绑。the bondage of will
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/luther/bondage.xiv.i.html
Sect. CLXVII. — I SHALL here draw this book to a conclusion: prepared if it
were necessary to pursue this Discussion still farther. Though I consider
that I have now abundantly satisfied the godly man, who wishes to believe
the truth without making resistance. For if we believe it to be true, that
God fore-knows and fore-ordains all things; that He can be neither deceived
nor hindered in His Prescience and Predestination; and that nothing can take
place but according to His Will, (which reason herself is compelled to
confess;) then, even according to the testimony of reason herself, there can
be no “Free-will” — in man, — in angel, — or in any creature!
Hence: — If we believe that Satan is the prince of this world, ever
ensnaring and fighting against the kingdom of Christ with all his powers;
and that he does not let go his captives without being forced by the Divine
Power of the Spirit; it is manifest, that there can be no such thing as —
“Free-will!”
Again: — If we believe that original sin has so destroyed us, that even in
the godly who are led by the Spirit, it causes the utmost molestation by
striving against that which is good; it is manifest, that there can be
nothing left in a man devoid of the Spirit, which can turn itself towards
good, but which must turn towards evil!
Again: — If the Jews, who followed after righteousness with all their
powers, ran rather into unrighteousness, while the Gentiles who followed
after unrighteousness attained unto a free righteousness which they never
hoped for; it is equally manifest, from their very works, and from
experience, that man, without grace, can do nothing but will evil!
Finally: — If we believe that Christ redeemed men by His blood, we are
compelled to confess, that the whole man was lost: otherwise, we shall make
Christ superfluous, or a Redeemer of the grossest part of man only, — which
is blasphemy and sacrilege! |
j*****7
发帖数: 10575 | 2 For if we believe it to be true, that God fore-knows and fore-ordains all
things; that He can be neither deceived nor hindered in His Prescience and
Predestination; and that nothing can take place but according to His Will, (
which reason herself is compelled to confess;) then, even according to the
testimony of reason herself, there can be no “Free-will” — in man, — in
angel, — or in any creature! |
j*****7
发帖数: 10575 | |
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 4 did he say God damned most of us to hell already before the creation of this
world?
I agree no concept is absolute including "free will"
But we take responsibilities for our sins because we have the "free will" to
transgress.
If Lutheranism is identical to Calvinism, why you guys not call yourselfe Lu
therans?
it
deceived
take
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: 我假设你们有这个常识，不会把马丁路德也归为改革宗了。因为他自己有门派的，叫做
: 路德宗。
: 马丁路德关于预定论最著名的讲论：意志的捆绑。the bondage of will
: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/luther/bondage.xiv.i.html
: Sect. CLXVII. — I SHALL here draw this book to a conclusion: prepared if it
: were necessary to pursue this Discussion still farther. Though I consider
: that I have now abundantly satisfied the godly man, who wishes to believe
: the truth without making resistance. For if we believe it to be true, that
: God fore-knows and fore-ordains all things; that He can be neither deceived
: nor hindered in His Prescience and Predestination; and that nothing can take
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 5 you need to study the bible, not the book of Calvin.
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: 当然跟你说这些也是白说
|
j*****7
发帖数: 10575 | 6 第一，改革宗什么时候说过，人不用为自己的行为负责了？
第二，加尔文跟路德的关系，你先补补基本功先？
第三，这一段很难读，你看不懂么？
For if we believe it to be true, that God fore-knows and fore-ordains all
things; that He can be neither deceived nor hindered in His Prescience and
Predestination;
第四，你以后再去google出来各式各样的“解经”来反对预定论的时候，还有底气么？
this
to
Lu
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: did he say God damned most of us to hell already before the creation of this
: world?
: I agree no concept is absolute including "free will"
: But we take responsibilities for our sins because we have the "free will" to
: transgress.
: If Lutheranism is identical to Calvinism, why you guys not call yourselfe Lu
: therans?
:
: it
: deceived
|
j*****7
发帖数: 10575 | 7 圣经你不读，专爱google合你胃口的解经书
我给你点权威的解经书，你又建议我只读圣经
你还没睡醒吧？
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: you need to study the bible, not the book of Calvin.
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 8 but Calvinists said God ordained people to hell before they were even born.
As I know, lutheran church doesnot support the peculiar doctrine of double
predestination. I also heart that Martin Luther did support that. It is OK
to take it as personal view.
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: 第一，改革宗什么时候说过，人不用为自己的行为负责了？
: 第二，加尔文跟路德的关系，你先补补基本功先？
: 第三，这一段很难读，你看不懂么？
: For if we believe it to be true, that God fore-knows and fore-ordains all
: things; that He can be neither deceived nor hindered in His Prescience and
: Predestination;
: 第四，你以后再去google出来各式各样的“解经”来反对预定论的时候，还有底气么？
:
: this
: to
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 9 book of Calvin has no authority
I know you don't like the Dallas Theological Seminary. I kind of like them
because their correct view of Revelation 20.
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: 圣经你不读，专爱google合你胃口的解经书
: 我给你点权威的解经书，你又建议我只读圣经
: 你还没睡醒吧？
|
T**********s
发帖数: 340 | 10 知之为知之不知为不知，
不要不知道却以为你已经知道了
OK
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: but Calvinists said God ordained people to hell before they were even born.
: As I know, lutheran church doesnot support the peculiar doctrine of double
: predestination. I also heart that Martin Luther did support that. It is OK
: to take it as personal view.
|
|
|
j*****7
发帖数: 10575 | 11 所以,一个观点在基督教内部的历史,你无所谓
不管是马丁路德支持也好,加尔文支持也好
只要你看着不顺眼,随手google一个合你口味的，就可以全部推翻
你把自己看得过 高 了吧？
OK
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: but Calvinists said God ordained people to hell before they were even born.
: As I know, lutheran church doesnot support the peculiar doctrine of double
: predestination. I also heart that Martin Luther did support that. It is OK
: to take it as personal view.
|
j*****7
发帖数: 10575 | 12 加尔文没权威
马丁路德没权威
就你有权威
你知道达拉斯对于预定论的官方看法么？不如给个链接大家围观一下？
我很怀疑给你两天时间能不能找出来
them
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: book of Calvin has no authority
: I know you don't like the Dallas Theological Seminary. I kind of like them
: because their correct view of Revelation 20.
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 13 to preach "Double" Predestination is an action of anti-christ.
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: 所以,一个观点在基督教内部的历史,你无所谓
: 不管是马丁路德支持也好,加尔文支持也好
: 只要你看着不顺眼,随手google一个合你口味的，就可以全部推翻
: 你把自己看得过 高 了吧？
:
: OK
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 14 I said lutheran church does not support double predestination
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: 加尔文没权威
: 马丁路德没权威
: 就你有权威
: 你知道达拉斯对于预定论的官方看法么？不如给个链接大家围观一下？
: 我很怀疑给你两天时间能不能找出来
:
: them
|
j*****7
发帖数: 10575 | 15 理由呢？
只是因为合你胃口？
这叫做自欺欺人
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: to preach "Double" Predestination is an action of anti-christ.
|
j*****7
发帖数: 10575 | 16 where?
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: I said lutheran church does not support double predestination
|
x***x
发帖数: 3401 | 17 加尔文异端才是捡合自己口味的东西信。自欺欺人，自扇耳光。
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: 理由呢？
: 只是因为合你胃口？
: 这叫做自欺欺人
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 18 because God is everlasting love.
That God ordained human being to hell makes God a demon.
Calvinists are anti-christ.
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: 理由呢？
: 只是因为合你胃口？
: 这叫做自欺欺人
|
j*****7
发帖数: 10575 | 19 你们家酱油又用完了
【在 x***x 的大作中提到】
: 加尔文异端才是捡合自己口味的东西信。自欺欺人，自扇耳光。
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 20 where did they support double predestination?
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: where?
|
|
|
x***x
发帖数: 3401 | 21 你妈家的用完了
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: 你们家酱油又用完了
|
j*****7
发帖数: 10575 | 22 小小年纪,说话这么没有教养
【在 x***x 的大作中提到】
: 你妈家的用完了
|
x***x
发帖数: 3401 | 23 比不上你骂街厉害。
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: 小小年纪,说话这么没有教养
|
j*****7
发帖数: 10575 | 24 连基本的教养都没有
【在 x***x 的大作中提到】
: 比不上你骂街厉害。
|
T**********s
发帖数: 340 | 25 家教太差了，
也有可能是跟那个整天PA揭别人的隐私爆别人的照片每天粗口喜欢作诗却没脸去诗歌版
自己往别人身上去贴的那个，在一起走得太近
【在 x***x 的大作中提到】
: 你妈家的用完了
|
x***x
发帖数: 3401 | 26 比你插科打诨撒泼骂街的本事差点。
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: 连基本的教养都没有
|
x***x
发帖数: 3401 | 27 你家教好，所以X改不了吃X。
【在 T**********s 的大作中提到】
: 家教太差了，
: 也有可能是跟那个整天PA揭别人的隐私爆别人的照片每天粗口喜欢作诗却没脸去诗歌版
: 自己往别人身上去贴的那个，在一起走得太近
|
j*****7
发帖数: 10575 | 28 骂街，也请你有点技术含量
有点教养
裸骂是非常令人不齿的一件事情
【在 x***x 的大作中提到】
: 比你插科打诨撒泼骂街的本事差点。
|
T**********s
发帖数: 340 | 29 有些人就是故意的，有些人本质就那样，就当其不存在好了
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: 骂街，也请你有点技术含量
: 有点教养
: 裸骂是非常令人不齿的一件事情
|
x***x
发帖数: 3401 | 30 你不就是最擅长裸骂的吗。 现在又要装圣贤了？ 省省吧。
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: 骂街，也请你有点技术含量
: 有点教养
: 裸骂是非常令人不齿的一件事情
|
|
|
T**********s
发帖数: 340 | 31 我第一次看到你这样。如果你下次还这样，就自己形容你自己吧
【在 x***x 的大作中提到】
: 你家教好，所以X改不了吃X。
|
x***x
发帖数: 3401 | 32 x改不了吃x是不是你发明的骂人方法？
自己不要脸撒谎被人揭穿还倒打一耙诬蔑别人造谣。 这种人不多人做得出来咧。
【在 T**********s 的大作中提到】
: 有些人就是故意的，有些人本质就那样，就当其不存在好了
|
j*****7
发帖数: 10575 | 33 唉，我只能说
在反基里面
你是属于比较没有文化和修养的
别人好歹，要么读过几页圣经，要么会写个毛毛雨，要么会炸个版什么的
你呢，你会啥？除了天天上mitbbs灌水，你还会啥？
【在 x***x 的大作中提到】
: 你不就是最擅长裸骂的吗。 现在又要装圣贤了？ 省省吧。
|
x***x
发帖数: 3401 | 34 恩 我可能只比骂街的强点吧。
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】
: 唉，我只能说
: 在反基里面
: 你是属于比较没有文化和修养的
: 别人好歹，要么读过几页圣经，要么会写个毛毛雨，要么会炸个版什么的
: 你呢，你会啥？除了天天上mitbbs灌水，你还会啥？
|
x***x
发帖数: 3401 | 35 x改不了吃x是不是你发明的骂人方法？
自己不要脸撒谎被人揭穿还倒打一耙诬蔑别人造谣。 这种事不多人做得出来咧。
【在 T**********s 的大作中提到】
: 我第一次看到你这样。如果你下次还这样，就自己形容你自己吧
|
j*****7
发帖数: 10575 | |
