p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 1 Against SB's 3 betting, JJ and QQ are huge part of my calling range. My
4 bet range is 0.9, which is pretty much AA and KK. I only 4 bet AK, QQ
against guys whose 3 betting range is over 5.
It is a common mistake that these low stake/middle state players make
to keep shoving with AK, QQ when over 100 BB deep against 3 betting or 4
betting. In the book Let's there be range , there are discussing about it.
Villian need to bluff more 18% time for you to shove with AK/QQ to be
correct af... 阅读全帖 |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 2 1) flop a set+ == 12%, say the probability of his giving up flop cbet is x%,
then the prob that he has set on turn P = 12% + (1-12%)*(1-x%)*2/45
if x == 50, p = 14%, if x == 0, p = 16%, if x == 33, p = 14.6%
2)假设bb 3bet against btn steal range 是ATs AJs KQs AQ AK and 99+,以及非常少
的air（忽略不计）， 减去你block的A和K，一共3（ATs）+3（AJs）+3（KQs）+12（AQ
）+9(AK)+6*4(99~QQ)+3(KK)+3(AA)＝60手
AA三手，所以我猜他有AA的概率是3/60大约5%，完全取决于BB的range。
请指正 |
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D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 3 will you call with KK? or you are not 3bet KK at all, |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 4 I did this. Went to ring game to test it.
NL2, 6-max, 3bet on 3BB w/ Q9o and call allin from AKo. But only run once. |
|
t********t
发帖数: 5415 | 5
action,
i
preflop $
flush
sure he's not going anywhere, but the problem is that he acts AFTER us.
He could be thinking TPTK is good against the LAG but not hero. To me
it's more like he's scared by the flush flop as well. If we call I don't
see him coming in.
Agree with ATs
comment though. it's live, and ANY club would stay imo. Unless a T hits,
we are never good.
On another thought...what about open to $7~$10 pre? sure you'll get
called
by many ppl, but if someone 3bets it's easy to let go, a... 阅读全帖 |
|
p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 6 windstormm, what do you think about against one aggro villain with KK on Axx
flop when SPR so low? suppose it is full ring, heads up against an aggro.
villain is 28/20 and 3bet 10%, pot is $60, effective stack is $100, you are
OOP and flop comes AT7r, check/call??
2
condition where people play perfect against us, we STILL make 10$ over long
run. The real ev
cards |
|
p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 7 我会preflop 3bet 到 100， 如果他shove我call， 如果他call， flop 基本任何牌都
可以 shove
as played， 这个flop 简直比AAK的flop还好 |
|
l*****r
发帖数: 2123 | 8 我没有3bet pre-flop 是因为这个老头loose -call station， 他的300多chip是刚刚
用A4o call gut shoot straight triple up 来的， 这是第一次raise 并且是big。
我最近的big draw 都miss， TNND 什么 top pair nuts flush draw, straight flush
draw, 已经不下10次了， 都是500-1000的pot。没有一个HIT到。
他over bet on flop, 我认为他是AK too。 我当然不希望他call了， 我shove ， 他
想了会fold掉了。 我还是miss了， 黑人老头是Jc8c win。 我只拿回来了$12 |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 9 朋友 你的数据能晒一下么 输赢倒是其次 我很好奇你的vpip pfr af 以及 cbet rate
还有 3bet 4bet的数据 |
|
s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 10 Phil built 6:1 chip lead and played badly. Rast only has 25BB. He can 3Bet w
/ Qx/Kx/Ax and instead he still tried to trap.
Still bad luck. All in 3 times with FD and hit zipper. |
|
T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 11 check fold. you made a mistake by overplay AK against a weak tight player.
Her 20 preflop was pretty strong on 1/2 tbl. I will guess she won't call
your 3bet with TT or less. most of time you r a big dog on the flop. check
and see if she is stupid enough to give u a free card for the turn, after
all she did make such mistake in the previous hand you post.
fryking just watering, imo. |
|
p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 12 I don't think 3bet AKs is a mistake. you got a premium hand against a weak
player, no need to be shy. I would go and go unless I hit the flop real hard
, in which case I will gradually get her stack in.
check |
|
T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 13 what if you miss the flop, which is 70% of time? Are u still going and and
going until all your money in the middle with A high?
AK, IMO, is a premium hand only against weak tight players. You 3bet them,
the first objective is to make them fold. A weak tight player raised $20
dollars in early position, what did it tell you? IMO, that is the first
warning sign. She called lz's three bet, at that time, i have to convinced
she had a real hand and unless i hit the flop hard, i might have to give up
... 阅读全帖 |
|
p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 14 in all likelihood, we have the equity to shove otf with minimum fold equity.
if villain is so nit as thebigslick imagine, then give her a range of TT+,
AK+, we have about 30% equity otf. now, since villain tank called 3bet, we
can take out AA/KK, so our equity will increase a bit.
the worst case is when her range has lots of SCs like JTs+, **AND** she also
call with weaker ace like AT/AJ. even then, we have about 25% equity (
taking out AA/KK). if villain fold weaker ace and only call with AQ+, ... 阅读全帖 |
|
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 16
没有亮出23o 46o 78o，就已经不错了，如果他拿烂牌赢了而且还让你on tilt了，那他
的目的就达到了。
不是在所有情况下，拿any 2 cards玩都亏钱的，象黎叔说的，位置，筹码长短，其他
人的风格，最近几小时的牌局历史，都是很大的影响因素。
我嚼着你可以做的是在心理comfortable的情况下，试图去改变一下table dynamic，象
黎叔说的翻牌前拿着中等强牌3bet，或者在flop帮助的情况下take lead，让他找到
fold button |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 17 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 昨晚一把牌 是call的疯狂还是3bet的疯狂，区别对待啊哥儿们 |
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 18 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 昨晚一把牌 如果桌子wild，你limp等着4bet也不是不可以。不过UTG被人3bet，然后回过头来被个
limp的人4bet，基本上你的牌就明了，KK都不像，只能AA。
所以你limp后，我觉得要准备直接4bet allin，弄1-2个loose的call进来然后就看运气
了。
直接raise是正常做法，准备和UTG heads up，最佳情况是他re-raise，然后你直接
allin完事。如果后面还有个把limp的，更好。
告诉我他有pocket QQ. |
|
l*****r
发帖数: 2123 | 19 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 请教一手牌 昨天在一个1/2 NL的桌子上， 刚上桌不久， 桌子就是个1/2 NL正常桌子， 比较紧，
我有240， 拿9cKc 在后卫raise 10， 只有button call， 他有400多， 他打得不差也
不坏， 后面看到他用JJ 3bet UTG， UTG 4bet All-in, 竟然call。
flop 3c7c8c, 我check， 他bet 20， 我call， turn Ks， 我bet 30, 他raise to 70，
我怎么办比较好？ |
|
g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 20 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 讨论一手牌 Feel both sides play over pair as nuts. Pot control is not here and both
sides should go all in pre-flop rather than wasting post-flop bet/3bet/4bet.
None is willing to fold or control. Just go all in pre-flop and make things
easier.
blind. |
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 21 NO history between us before the final table. He did r/f in one hand and
3bet allin w/ AK when he was still relatively short (about 100K). I played
quite solid in the final table. Only had two showdown w/ top two got
outdrawn by a gut shot and 99 won a race against AJo. So I really didnt
think he shove w/ anything less than AK. Even if he had AK, I didn't want to
race w/ 60% of my chips. But as you said, folding QQ seems really bad and I
called after a long thought and he turned over AA...
With... 阅读全帖 |
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p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 22 lots of rocks, haha. for 40bb effective, snap call with AKo. she is never
folding, so it is a shove essentially. I play some hu cash game online, and
I think for 40bb, AJo/77+ is snap call against a 3bet/4bet shove. With AKo,
in general I think we can call off like 100bb? |
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 23 Not enough info for me, but for hand 1, if you call the raise on the flop
and turn, I don't see how can you fold the river w/ argubly the best card
other than an 8 in the deck fall for you, I would 3bet the flop though; for
hand 2, I would think villian either on a busted flush draw or 67. I would
fold the river but would make a pot-size bet on the turn so your decision on
the river would be a little easier.
hands
224r. |
|
r******r
发帖数: 39 | 24 无论结果如何，既然你认为他call了你flop的3bet就不可能fold掉，那你更应该turn上
push all in. 如果river是张over card例如A或K, 很多fish也会fold掉自己的pair，
这样你就loose value了. 他们根本不会去考虑river是否对你有帮助，只是他们会觉得
自己的over pair已经不是over pair了。
其实这张turn card对你来说非常好，因为如果你是flop了top two, 现在已经不好了。
而且他的stake size也不大，再加上这张turn card，会让他更难fold掉。这把你play
的不是很好，当然运气也差了些。 |
|
D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 25 我觉得AK要比AQ质量高不少。AK可以打成AK，KK，QQ，JJ。
AQo没位置甚至可以fold。
但是AK最好Preflop要aggressive，最好3Bet打扮成over pair，hit到最好，不hit到也
要能把TT，99,88打走。
of
's |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 26 个人感觉你那k6s的牌问题很大， 但问题不在于river没有3bet shove.
完全可能，俺上个session要不是自己fancy play那把donk bluff，还有一把自己给自
己下套严重lose value，俺可能都$600 了，哈哈，还有Ks6s那........
★ Sent from iPhone App: iReader Mitbbs Lite 7.36 |
|
w**********y
发帖数: 1691 | 27 Happy new year, gamblers! ^_^
%%Background:
I was playing in a local poker club for almost half a year. The game is $1/$
3 with unlimited straddle and sleeper. It is at the similar level as $2/$5
in Borgata. Preflop bet is usually $15 to $25.
Last nite, there were 9 ppl. I played with most of them before. Half of the
players is LAG. 1/2 of these LAGs can bet/call/raise with any two cards
preflop.
Villain is super aggressive. Lots of cbets and many bluffings.
He bought in $1k or $2K every time, a... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 28
,
不要有类似最近几个session unlucky，或者jj是近4个小时最好的一手牌一定要commit
的想法。每手牌都是独立的，momentum来的时候也就1到2手牌。just like you said，
be more patient。
听你的描述，你的桌子太疯狂，being TAG肯定没错，我觉得相对3刀的大盲注200刀的
买入也不是那么短，一圈圈转下来也不是那么hurt，就像你说的，随着你的stack逐步
增加，逐渐调节战术，其实也不错，最关键的是，这样的战术让你feel comfortable。
点心哥和转一半大师已经给你指出了，你的利润点在于无论你的image有多好，你的对
手依然3bet light和call light（具体情况不知道，可能有高手混在里面，也会fold给
你的aggression，所以那手你非常愤怒的牌，如果对方是一般的疯子，那你打得没错，
不要太在意结果），我个人意见，你试试打一个session的nit style，看看你的对手中
有没有人不会调整的，先把pro跟鱼分开，然后有的放矢，呵呵 |
|
c****1
发帖数: 457 | 29 先说牌吧，你的打法很像我最初2-3年的打法。player曾经贴过Phil G关于probability
，logic，psychology的论述。你的打法在probability上不一定最优，但是你logic缜
密，reading ability又强，beat live 1/2是没问题的。我觉得你这打法比那种过分强
调range analysis, risk/reward的打法有更大的EV，因为大多数1/2的人post flop过
于passive，raise，3bet太少，再加上一些tell，你能把他们的牌narrow down很窄的
范围，这样你就能有效的控制风险，同时可用aggression获得很大的fold equity或者
negate你在位置上的disadvantage。不过当你升级到2/5或者5/10,你要小心点，桌上的
人不是那么好read，大家打得都比较凶，你现在的风格就有可能要进行调整。
再随便说说你们的争吵，我见过这位女牌友，人很随和，也不ego。不过lziueng你也要
注意一下情绪控制。很多人的评论是从不同角度（我觉得更多的是probability）来讨
论牌... 阅读全帖 |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 30 More content from that thread that I think helpful:
This is about donking:
" I think leading into the pfr is will become a much more common practice
in the future of poker. I think it's the next 3betting light, c/c lead turn,
fastplaying sets, or c/r rivers. Each goes in style at one point and then
people figure out more about it.
The reason I think I can't figure it out yet is that so much of the value of
the play has to do with how your opponent will react to it. I don't reall... 阅读全帖 |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 31 This is about balancing, a really good one, IMO.
I really really like this statement!
" So, in any situation, my first thought is what I'm trying to
accomplish with a play (a bet, ck, raise)"
"
I don't crunch numbers as often as people probably think I do.
I think I am good at doing some rough math in my head on the fly, as far as
hand combos and ranges go. Lemme think about my thought process...
So, in any situation, my first thought is what I'm trying to accomplish with
a pla... 阅读全帖 |
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j**y
发帖数: 7014 | 32 看见大家都纷纷贴新年的经历，我也凑个热闹，添添喜气。
希望大家2012都能鸿运高照，poker大丰收吧。
Casino: local small caniso (20min driving distance). limited and 2/5 unlimit
ed table only.
Profit/time: up 1.5k in 3 hours
Date: 1/2/2012
Background：这个casino很小很破，一共10张桌子左右，大部分是3/6和4/8的limited
tables，一般有1-2张的桌子run 2/5. Rake是每30分钟每人7刀和每手牌的jackpot rak
e 1刀。我去过几次，2011的总成绩基本打平。2/5的桌子啥人都有，lag，super lag，
donk。有时action很crazy，我见过的最大的pot是6000+在turn上结束战斗。
那天孩子刚睡午觉，晚上有一个饭局，正好下午没啥可忙得，就跑出去了玩了一会
儿。到了casino，赶上刚开一张2/5的新桌。人也都不太熟，但没感觉有什么shark。其
实打的倒是没啥可说的（我的水平也... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 33 hand 2, no brain shove with 100bb headsup. only 6 hands can beat you
hand 4, if it is an extreme lag table, i would raise more or limp/3bet in EP
. Since your stack is not deep, without special read, the call is OK. It is
just doomed.
hand 3, ed's book asks us to commit tptk+ with 100bb or so. If your stack is
getting deep, things gonna change drastically. basically, I say, hands
strength matches pot size, if villain is a donk, let donk donk, hehe, over
pushing donk is not profitable at all. |
|
s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 34 坦率地说，我觉得AT和JJ真的很难在对手得range里
flop 3-bet得range基本上就是非常强得牌+强draw牌，如果他是AT,JJ，他平call你的
raise得可能性很大。
为什么他AT，JJ应该平call你的raise呢？（假设你的flop raise有semibluff和纯
bluff）
因为AT,JJ这里repop allin没有任何意义，只打跑了比AT,JJ小的bluff，你肯定不会用
bluff的牌来call吧，而你call他repop的range只有强draw牌和比他AT,JJ强很多的牌。
因此这里他拿AT，JJ repop的概率非常非常小。
再看他的range，因为他会repop KsJs，所以他应该会repop很多强draw牌，强draw牌
落后你不会很多，因为你这里不是AA，强draw牌可能还多了一些out。这里
即使他没有AA，KK，他也可能有2pair和set的组合，这样的牌是领先你非常多的。
总结一下，用overpair call这样的flop 3bet，基本上就是你和他做一个flip或者
你大大落后。数字分析我也给你写上了，打牌的时候是来不及算，... 阅读全帖 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 35 再胡说两句。
这个人的3bet还是很紧的吧。然后可以看看他在bb cold call 的range 越紧，他这里
hit到的大牌的可能就越大， 因为这牌面hit 到很多他cold call 的premium hand
like 4 broadway card and 2 spade. 当然还有qqxx jjxx, with or without flush
draw. 这里他有set of Q 是肯定不会fold 的。 J set都够呛， 看他pot 就想是要get
it in.
再看看他flop check raised 的频率， 越多他的牌越弱。 基本这里， 对手很紧的活
， 这里你对他range 没有优势。 当然你自己的形象也要考虑到的, 可以决定他是不是
会raise you light. 他raise light, 你当然repot, for value and for fold equity
.
查了一下，villian 500手只有1.5%的3-bet应该只有3-bet premium AAxx
★ Sent from iPhone App: iReader Mitb... 阅读全帖 |
|
p****t
发帖数: 292 | 36 I don't play live or 300bb deep very often but I'll give it a try.
I don't like the flop raise. We are really hoping villain to just lay it
down right there which does not happen very often given the action and board
texture up to that point.
If we cannot take it down right there, I don't see many good options left
for us. If villain calls the flop, we either continue to bluff on the turn
and then we are almost committed to bluff again on the river because we have
no showdown value at all when w... 阅读全帖 |
|
t*********d
发帖数: 3398 | 37 有印象，好像是Hero什么的， 一开始都没发现， 等一会儿手上发的牌突然多了， 还
以为系统出问题， 结果仔细看， 是好几种混合的比赛， 然后赶紧打开google搜规则
， 好在yuanjj还是知道的比我多点， 通过IM随时提醒我，
我不懂的game就尽量和人check到底， 然后等轮到holdem， 我和yuanjj就互相3bet/
4bet把其他player squeeze掉，靠作弊搞了个头两名
现在想想也挺有意识的 |
|
s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 38 我知道一些100NL和50NL的 reg，他们是赢了不少的，所以应该还好了
主要问题是自己的leak多，原先preflop 的leak就有不少(3bet range balance)
所以只能靠rakeback
.
BUY |
|
p****t
发帖数: 292 | 39 3bet small pocket pair oop (as a bluff) is a defensive strategy against strong player to
make yourself less exploitable. Against a loose calling station, it is bad
unless you are trying to bring the spr to the sweet range. |
|
p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 40 u internet kid， no brain 3bet，4bet，shove， 一点技术含量也木有 |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 41 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 被魚咬了 back to back 2 hands?
my2c,
hand 1, before seeing fish fold any hand by pressure, try not to steal from
him.(i am weak tight, lol)
hand 2, it is likely that fish does not even know 3bet with AA, but most ppl
do know push with monster hand. With an ace on flop, he could have at+
easily.
most important, Don't be on tilt when you losed your money to the one who
played wrong. This is the reason they still coming back and never realize
they lose over all. |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 42 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 一手QQ my2c, qq with < 60bb(if you are tag) or < 100bb (if you are lag) effective
stack, and no extra tells, especially against multiple players. Try to
invite as many players to commit as u can.
So i prefer call here.
another CORRECTION, the probability of AK hitting flop tptk is only around
30%. So the probability of ax/kx hand hitting top pair on flop is much lower
. means you are in huge favor if the ax/kx hand is invited into the pot.
the probability of AK hitting top pair on whole 5 cards board i... 阅读全帖 |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 43 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 一手QQ hehe, AK bro. I did mean short stack situation.
otherwise, we do need to protect our QQ by 3betting.
the
you
may |
|
s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 44 I totally agree with you on this hand.
我认为如果拿边缘牌3bet撞到牌的话就打3条街到all in能获得最大value
turn
on |
|
p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 45 agree, I would 3bet and try to get it in. being OOP against a reg is a
consideration here. more betting rounds for fish means more chance to make
mistakes, but for a reg in position, probably not.
makes |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 46
tighten
to
less
etc
NL25 6-MAX
The scary thing is I actually play in a semi-conservative style. My feel, it
is all of a sudden after one night, bunch of new agg ids join in the tables
, I usually mark them as pushy players. with vpip/pfr 30ish/20ish, their
basic AF > 8,and with high frequency of 2 barrels/3 barrels. pf 3bet rates
are also high. The game is not that soft any more. and recently I always ran
into the underdog side of coolers. Good thing is I can still control my
allin btn. Seems s... 阅读全帖 |
|
n***a
发帖数: 274 | 47 local 小casino，鱼儿游啊游，打出了很多令人目瞪口呆的牌
一开始还比较正常，preflop raise to $10一般也就两三个caller，偶尔还可以直接拿
下。随着夜深，桌子开始疯狂起来。
1:
limp to LP short stack raise to $12, 4 callers,
flop 994r, check to short stack w/ AA went all in w/ 45$,
short stack limper 1, all in ~60$: K9o!
limper 2, all in~85$: 95s!!!
2:
2 limpers, 一个玩得还不错的deep stack大哥bb直接raise到35$，both limpers
called,
flop: Jd6c6d, bb check, EP bet $25, LP fold, bb蛋疼call，
turn: 7c, bb check, EP bet $100 with $200 behind,bb蛋疼call,
river: 3c, bb check, EP check
bb sh... 阅读全帖 |
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c****1
发帖数: 457 | 48 别人不4-bet么。 你3bet后出的cbet比例多大
well. |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 49 you are increasing ur 3bet % in your villain's database, i think, lol
soon u will find more and more 4bet is coming |
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b*****t
发帖数: 52 | 50 Hero Button with JJ.
UTG raise to 1 dollar.a relative tight player.
fold fold fold ..... a guy late position call 1 dollar raise.
Hero think for a while 3Bet to 4 dollar. goes to BB reraise all-in. a guy
fold.
Hero need to call extra 3 dollar. kinda feel he had AK, AA, KK, QQ. so
called like a donkey... BB showed QQ.
Question: Should I even call this? how come live I'd fold to 4Bet in a heart
beat, online I called. Maybe because only 3.6 dollar? |
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