E*******1
发帖数: 3464 | 1 Yeah, if he put his elbow that way with no move, that is the different story
, but you know he waved it all the way around.No rule will allow this.
Actually, it is much more dangeous than a straight hit, isn't it?
I don't like elbow in basketball and I cannot tell the difference between
these two elbows because obviously they use it on purpose and full of danger |
|
M**U
发帖数: 407 | 2 “Lebron has a torn ligament in his elbow that should keep him out 6 to 8 we
eks. He's trying to play through it and not complain, so the media doesn't k
now it's that serious. Before game 4 he had a shot in the elbow to numb it.
You can only get the shot once every 10 days, so last night he couldn't do i
t.”
“Thus, the most logical conclusion is the elbow was a major factor, and it
affected LeBron mentally as much as it did physically. We have one other dat
a point to support us: his track recor |
|
g****t
发帖数: 31659 | 3 十天才能打一针,靠谱.
“Lebron has a torn ligament in his elbow that should keep him out 6 to 8 we
eks. He's trying to play through it and not complain, so the media doesn't k
now it's that serious. Before game 4 he had a shot in the elbow to numb it.
You can only get the shot once every 10 days, so last night he couldn't do i
t.”
“Thus, the most logical conclusion is the elbow was a major factor, and it
affected LeBron mentally as much as it did physically. We have one other dat
a point to support us: hi |
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p*********e
发帖数: 32207 | 4 规则里面有针对用肘的有这么几条
首先,挥肘本身是违例,但不是个人犯规:
g. On the following infractions, the ball shall be awarded to the opposing
team on the
sideline at the nearest spot but no nearer to the baseline than the free
throw line extended:
(1) Traveling
(2) Dribbling violations
(3) Striking or kicking the ball on any situation except a throw-in
(4) Swinging of elbows
Section X—Swinging of Elbows
A player shall not be allowed excessive and/or vigorous swinging of the
elbows in
swinging motion (no contact) when a defens |
|
p*********e
发帖数: 32207 | 5 原文在另一个回帖中,再换个标题发一下
规则里面有针对用肘的有这么几条
首先,挥肘本身是违例,但不是个人犯规:
g. On the following infractions, the ball shall be awarded to the opposing
team on the
sideline at the nearest spot but no nearer to the baseline than the free
throw line extended:
(1) Traveling
(2) Dribbling violations
(3) Striking or kicking the ball on any situation except a throw-in
(4) Swinging of elbows
Section X—Swinging of Elbows
A player shall not be allowed excessive and/or vigorous swinging of the
elbows in
swinging motion (no con |
|
d********u
发帖数: 5383 | 6 MVP？日，WNBA的MVP吧？
我觉得喊ELBOW比较好。来，残们，跟我一起喊：elbow, elbow (repeat 100 times) |
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s***o
发帖数: 6934 | 7 太多了，懒得一个个找，你去油管搜bynum elbow就出来了
还有malone elbow，shaq elbow，随便来一个我认为最暴力的 |
|
k*2
发帖数: 2867 | 8 铁肘伤人
Lebron James Gets in Stephen Curry's Face - Game 4 NBA Finals
Lebron James Throws Elbows At Stephen Curry & Andre Iguodala
Roy Hibbert takes elbow from LeBron
LeBron elbows Andre Iguodala = BS foul on Iguodala in the 2015 NBA finals! |
|
v*****r
发帖数: 2325 | 9 it's called climber elbow.
try some rehab exercise.... maybe help a bit... it is that tendon injuried,
so it takes long time to recover...
http://www.nicros.com/archive/climbers_elbow.cfm
i injuried my elbow doing weighted pull up in Feb, still not able to do pull
up without feeling any discomfort... sigh....
看来ELBOW 最大弯折时负力是个禁区 |
|
v*****r
发帖数: 2325 | 10 恩 我的体会是手臂整个过程一定要完全伸直（FULLY EXTENDED ELBOW)，
ELBOW 没有完全打开的话很容易在做HIGH REP时伤到ELBOW. 这也可以ELIMINATE 手臂
做工
然后就是身体TENSE & RELAX 跟SWING 配合好
TOP OF SWING, RELAX, 回落时及时收紧躯体， 靠HIP JOINT PRIME MOVER 来制动
整个过程胳膊的用力跟跟胳膊伸直挂在单杠上类似
HIGH REP kb SWING 是很好的CARDIO WORK OUT
， 注意它 在KB back swing 的终点，到 hip snap时，手臂是贴着身体的， 是hip把
手臂和kb一起proiect 起来。 hip snap发力快完成时才利用惯性把kb甩起来。整个过
程中上臂不用力。 如果hip snap 时手臂离开身体，就变成手臂做工了。
身体，才能swing 起来。 |
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v*****r
发帖数: 2325 | 11 恩 我的体会是手臂整个过程一定要完全伸直（FULLY EXTENDED ELBOW)，
ELBOW 没有完全打开的话很容易在做HIGH REP时伤到ELBOW. 这也可以ELIMINATE 手臂
做工
然后就是身体TENSE & RELAX 跟SWING 配合好
TOP OF SWING, RELAX, 回落时及时收紧躯体， 靠HIP JOINT PRIME MOVER 来制动
整个过程胳膊的用力跟跟胳膊伸直挂在单杠上类似
HIGH REP kb SWING 是很好的CARDIO WORK OUT
， 注意它 在KB back swing 的终点，到 hip snap时，手臂是贴着身体的， 是hip把
手臂和kb一起proiect 起来。 hip snap发力快完成时才利用惯性把kb甩起来。整个过
程中上臂不用力。 如果hip snap 时手臂离开身体，就变成手臂做工了。
身体，才能swing 起来。 |
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z********0
发帖数: 9013 | 12 找到了一个专门用dumbbell Swing的介绍
1) Maintain good posture – this includes a flat back and a relaxed neck and
spine, but also a locked down core. Your abdominal muscles should be active
ly contracted during the explosive, swinging phase of the movement.
2) Maintain shoulder pack position – actively packing your shoulder directl
y downwards onto your ribcage. This creates a structure that allows the dumb
bell to travel smoothly with no excess movement.
3) Maintain elbow lock – bending your elbow will all... 阅读全帖 |
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p*********l
发帖数: 26270 | 13 我真是衰，就做p90x里面的triceps routine就把自己弄伤了。:(
其实8月底开始就有点不舒服了，9月一直没怎么练力量，有所好转，不怎么疼了。昨天
做push up，肘部的疼痛突然又回来了。我刚google了一下，应该是golfer's elbow，
症状非常典型，就是手肘内侧的关节处酸痛难忍，做extension的时候格外明显，有时
还能听到crack。
treatment好象主要是休息 冰敷和吃止痛片，网上有点辅助的拉伸训练，刚做了做，的
确有感觉，再就是建议用elbow straps。
不知道大家平时怎么做weights的？是不是都要用护肘？如果是的话，有没有什么讲究
？我打算去弄一对elbow strap来用，想听听大家的意见。。。谢谢！ |
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p*********l
发帖数: 26270 | 14 肘关节受伤我经历过，我们公司的crossfit小兄弟也正在受此困扰，药膏没有用，可以
吃点止痛药或者云南白药，然后去网上搜一搜golfer's elbow和tennis elblow，两者
疼痛的位置不一样，你先把这个分清楚，我和我同事都是golfer's elbow。搞清楚是哪
个毛病以后再搜相应的stretch动作，比如golfer's elbow stretch，没事就做做，能
缓解症状。这段时间不要推大重量，歇着养伤。 |
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s***r
发帖数: 358 | 15 Yes, if you want to have a healthy shoulder.
How much you need to tuck your elbows depends on your arm length and grip.
The bottom line is that the bar and your wrists are inline with your elbows
and your forearms need to be vertical (90 degree angle to the floor) at the
bottom of the lift.
Check out Brandon Lilly's training video (benching starts at 54') and see
how he tucks his elbows. He uses a narrow grip. |
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s***r
发帖数: 358 | 16 Yes, if you want to have a healthy shoulder.
How much you need to tuck your elbows depends on your arm length and grip.
The bottom line is that the bar and your wrists are inline with your elbows
and your forearms need to be vertical (90 degree angle to the floor) at the
bottom of the lift.
Check out Brandon Lilly's training video (benching starts at 54') and see
how he tucks his elbows. He uses a narrow grip. |
|
s***r
发帖数: 358 | 17 Squat:
1) Fix the depth issue. Go parallel. If you have issues going to parallel
due to poor ankle mobility, fix that first.
2) Fix the flaring elbow issue. Pull your elbows towards your lats and keep
them there during the whole time. Pull your elbows forward the minute you
explode out of the hole. This will keep your chest up.
3) Since you squat with high bar position, all you need to do is: a)
initiate the squat with your hips sitting back a tiny bit. This will keep
the weight on your heels; b... 阅读全帖 |
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s***r
发帖数: 358 | 18 Not bad. Try to pull your elbow toward your lats and squeeze your shoulder
blades as hard as you can. Your traps would form a nice bed for the bar to
lay on. Then lay the bar on the top of your traps (or a sweet spot you are
most comfortable with). Keep in mind that the bar would always sit on traps,
and shouldn't touch any bone at all.
Your elbow doesn't need to be exactly parallel with your upper body. Try to
get your elbows under the bar as much as possible, especially in the hole.
This would... 阅读全帖 |
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s***r
发帖数: 358 | 19 Not bad. Try to pull your elbow toward your lats and squeeze your shoulder
blades as hard as you can. Your traps would form a nice bed for the bar to
lay on. Then lay the bar on the top of your traps (or a sweet spot you are
most comfortable with). Keep in mind that the bar would always sit on traps,
and shouldn't touch any bone at all.
Your elbow doesn't need to be exactly parallel with your upper body. Try to
get your elbows under the bar as much as possible, especially in the hole.
This would... 阅读全帖 |
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s***r
发帖数: 358 | 20 He's pretty decent and knowledgeable on a lot of things and I like to read
his articles. When I started learning how to squat, the first video I
watched was his squat video. In his squat tutorial video, he advocates two
things that I don't think are his best work:
1) Hip drive. Hip drive is just a fancy term for using your posterior chain.
It's used more in low bar squat, and not so much in high bar squat. The
video you posted unfortunately can lead beginners to believe that one should
lead out ... 阅读全帖 |
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v*****r
发帖数: 2325 | 21 carwin might help Cain, those hard head shots to Lesnar is damage to Lesnar'
s brain and mental.
reported that lesnar verbally sumbitted to Cain earlier in the round, but
Cain didn't hear it.... cain later admitted he didn't punch all that
agressively early on.
head shots in Heavyweight are deadly to fighter's career.
heavyweight increases the damage double fold:
opponent's punch power increased due to the larger BW;
lesnar's hugh BW increase his own inertia, so the blow of Cain's punch
absorbed... 阅读全帖 |
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B**I
发帖数: 601 | 22 http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/info/tournament/2010RULES_PushH
US Rules
RULES FOR TAI CHI PUSH HAND DIVISIONS
1. General Rules
a. Competitors must be over 18 years of age, have practiced Tai Chi Kung Fu
for more than 2 years, be able to show proof of coverage by a valid health
insurance policy (a valid insurance card is sufficient), and be willing to
sign the Liability Waiver. Competitors are required to follow the rules and
demonstrate courtesy to the judges and officials, the audience, and fe... 阅读全帖 |
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h*****o
发帖数: 598 | 23 1. I don't think so. Most butterflyers have their elbows flexed
upon entry. This preferable to a completely extended position.
With your elbows flexed at entry, extending your elbows immediately
after entry will start your hands moving outward even while your
upper arms are traveling inward. If your arms were completely
extened at entry , you would have to stop their inward motion before
you could accelerate them outward, that is why u do feel an
obvious pause at entry.
2 You can say that. Some |
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e*******e
发帖数: 9616 | 24 high elbow or straight elbow catch are both used by professional swimmer.
Phelps experiment the straight elbow catch and lost to another guy in
world cup 200 free qualifying. |
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i*********5
发帖数: 19210 | 25 Is The High-Elbow Pull Best For The Freestyle Swim Stroke?
http://triathlon.competitor.com/2013/07/training/is-the-high-el
The high-elbow pull, for those who are not familiar, keeps the elbow close
to the surface as only the hand and forearm lower to pull instead of
dropping the entire arm as in the deep pull. |
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i*********5
发帖数: 19210 | 26 结合高阳教我的来解读孙杨的动作分析：
“把肘顶起来”，在孙杨的这段动作分析里，我的理解就是：
Frame #1: The upper left arm abducts to provide the power for the pull.
Frame #2: Abduction of the upper left arm continues with the hand-forearm
surface providing most of the propulsive force.
Frame #8: The right arm begins to sink and bend at the elbow.
Frame #9. The right arm is very likely to be propulsive at this stage.
Frame #15: The left arm begins to be repositioned for propulsion. The wrist
begins to bend at the same time the elbow flexes a... 阅读全帖 |
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d**y
发帖数: 18174 | 27 小臂划水并不是靠肱三头肌。肱三的作用是保持直臂姿态(elbow extension)；对于
elbow flexion，肱三是对抗（拉伸）而不是协同。做1000次高质量的elbow flexion，
如果大幅度侧身，向正下折小臂，需要brachioradialis力量和耐力都好，通常需要陆
上辅助训练。由于这块肌肉实在太弱，很多女子中长距离采用肘略外展，略向内抱水，
这样可以用上肱二的部分力量。
无论哪种抱水，手腕的肌肉都要加强，保持手掌和手腕姿态。 |
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b*****t
发帖数: 758 | 28 Icing does more than that. For tennis elbow, it reduces inflammation and
increases circulation, which is important for removing the scar tissues from
the injuried area during recovery. But icing a few days is not going to do
the trick for tennis elbow (although it does make one feel better right away
), one should keep icing every night until the inflammation is all gone (no
pain in the elbow). |
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b*****t
发帖数: 758 | 29 Change to babolat aeropro drive. It is 11.2oz, mid plus (100 sq in), and 5-
point head light: fits everything you are looking for.
TT bandit OS was also my racquet before I got tennis elbow. TT bandit OS is
a good racquet for its price, but it can cause tennis elbow. The first thing
I did after I got tennis elbow was selling my two TT racquets and buying
two babolat's.
You will feel the effect right away: you will never lose any games because
you have a bad racquet:-) It may take a long time to |
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B******a
发帖数: 601 | 30 live wire xp is pretty good. I had used it for quite long time before I
switched to poly. Wilson ntx is ok but durability is very bad.
Although my form is ok, poly still hurt my elbow a little. If I played too
hard, I can feel a little pain next day. So far I am lucky that I do not
have tennis elbow. Poly is the worst string for your elbow. |
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d*g
发帖数: 16592 | 31 My view may not be right for you, just a reference and give you some
hints from other guys.
谢谢老大，其他人的建议我也都认真考虑。
For baseline rally itself, your strokes are more than enough for 3.5
femalesif it is like the video in your game.
关键就是在比赛里面，我打不出这样的节奏感，动作是不是一样就不知道了，一直没有
机会拍比赛。
主要是没人帮忙，自己比赛时候根本没心思搞。
I am not sure how to point it exactly on your forehand follow thru.
Maybe it is about your right shoulder. It is kind of stiff and tight,
then stuck there with your chin when you finish. This reduced your
f... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****n
发帖数: 18176 | 32 a response from TT:
1. Your stance is too open, move your rear foot back towards the side fence
about 8"
2. Your take back is inhibiting you from getting into the proper trophy pose
position. Try turning your palm down to face the court as you loop back
with your racquet, your racquet face should be turned towards the ground
right here, you will find it is much more natural to transition right into
the trophy pose with the proper elbow bend once you try this change. You are
also a little late wi... 阅读全帖 |
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b*****o
发帖数: 332 | 33 就是对的了， Double bend morden forehand， elbow bend + wrist bend, better control!
Wrist bend until point of contact with ball, another benefit is that you won't get TE if you play this way, as elbow and wrist do not get stressed that much, if you use your leg and core strength to generate power, after a long game, your arm and elbow won't feel a thing, it is your core and leg get tired and next day you will have very sore leg... |
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b*e
发帖数: 3845 | 34 呵呵，你用过Stiff Racquet吗？得过Tennis Elbow吗？
你怎么知道LZ以后要走Pusher路线？
我从来没看到过老头用Babolat Pure Drive，老头有Tennis Elbow倒是挺多的。
如果按照你的观点，你用PD挺合适的，用上一年，看你得不得Tennis Elbow。 |
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T*********0
发帖数: 4816 | 35 近一年半前，为了准备打tournament，晚上出去同朋友打球比赛练习，结果回来不能及
时入睡，休息不好，结果几周后，自己也得了GE，Elbow内侧疼，结果也是买来了一个
保护的那东西，一打球，就戴在Elbow那。开始不习惯，后来还习惯了，几个月后，GE
好了。
这有点保护，还真的挺好使。有时也在想，就是没有GE或TE，自己是不是也没事带个保
护的在Elbow那，反正自己都已经习惯那有个保护带子了。 |
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b*e
发帖数: 3845 | 36 You need to find the root cause of the Golf Elbow. I had Golf Elbow last
year due to I was experimenting different racquet with differnt grip size. I
found that if grip size is too small, it's easy to get golf elbow. |
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b*e
发帖数: 3845 | 37 Here are my experience about how I recovered from severe tennis elbow.
1. Changed to a relatively heavy/ head light/not stiff racquet
2. Changed to relative soft string
3. Ice elbow after every match
4. Tried alternating with ice and heat
5. Bought a "Flexbar", it's very helpful to strenghten the elbow muscle
6. Carry a rubber band (that I used as racquet dampener), just did finger
extension exercise.
Everyone's case might be different, but it doesn't hurt to try. |
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b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 38 左臂上指, 臀部自然顶出, 右肩自然会比左肩低, 但不能drip又elbow,elbow和身体尽
量保持90度。身体这时和地面已经不是垂直所以elbow看上去drop了其实不是或不应该
。不过如果你发球还不舒畅先别管这些。
是越能和被平行靠近越好。 你之前的已经和背平行了。 你用的是哪两个手指? 试试不
用手指基本空握,buttcap 大些所以该不会耍出去。 很多时候不舒畅和抛球有关, 抛偏
了容易用上身和手臂来compensate. |
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b*e
发帖数: 3845 | 39 [序言]
2015 Indian Wells 40+ 4.0 national刚刚结束，感觉就像做梦一样。在dbg的提议下
，我觉得把整个过程写下来的确是个好主意。既避免忘记一些细节，又可以分享一些比
赛技战术和心理经历。只是我文笔较差，写得比较罗嗦枯燥。
[Road to National和准备]
我参加usta 10年，单打比双打强，今年春夏usta基本上只打单打。先罗嗦一下我怎样
才有这次national的机会。原先参加了New Jersey两个4.0队和Delaware一个4.0队，都
没能过district这一关。本来以为今年usta season已经结束，不料宾州一球队队长跟
我联系,该队铁定进district，需要单打选手。给我安排了一场rescheduled match, 一
场default, 让我赶上了PA district的末班车。值得一提的是，我队原先的一个二单主
力选手从此就没有上场的机会，队长只能对他说抱歉。
8/29周末District三场单打全胜。9/5 周末US Open Party跟5z和north Jersey各位高
手的拉练效果不错。只是打得太多... 阅读全帖 |
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n********g
发帖数: 494 | 40 百慕大首府汉密尔顿城(City of Hamilton)位于整个群岛中部，是百慕大行政、金融、
商业的中心，也是岛上最大的港口。
汉密尔顿城建城于1790年，其名字源于当时的百慕大总督亨利·汉密尔顿爵士。凭借着
其自身的地理优势，于1815年正式取代圣乔治镇成为了百慕大群岛新的首府。汉密尔顿
城是世界上居住人口数量最小的首府城市之一，不过小归小，在这里也是百慕大群岛上
唯一有城市氛围的地方。作为世界闻名的离岸金融中心，行走在城中的街道上，随处可
见穿深色西装、长统袜短裤的白领员工。
汉密尔顿城的街道颇为干净整洁，房屋色彩多样，街边商店鳞次栉比。
1）
2）
3）
4）
5）
6）
7）
白色的以及粉色的教堂。
8）
9）
百慕大议会大楼(Sessions House)，是百慕大下议院所在地。百慕大的议会是仅次于冰
岛和英格兰的世界第三古老的议会。
10）
11）
12）
13）
百慕大大教堂（The Cathedra of the Most Holy Trinity）是这座城市最为著名而显
眼的建筑，是英国圣公会在百慕大的主教教堂，吸引了不少游客。
14）
15）
16）
17）
18... 阅读全帖 |
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c********n
发帖数: 34 | 42 你这个PVC feeder角度不对，不能用T+90度elbow
试试这个，用90度elbow + 45度elbow，头就不用全伸进去了
把你现在这个锯掉一节也凑合
另外卧室要加个门，冬天防风，另外多一层保护防止动物钻进去 |
|
m***y
发帖数: 14763 | 43 That's fine. But now, most people are suspecting HH paid Elbow for marketing
. And the payment went through Elbow's fund, should he allow an audit to
clear his own name?
Sure, he doesn't need to respond to this request. But why the heck should
anybody respond to his challenge on anything? Whenever he badmouths somebody
else's credentials, he always expected the person in doubt to put up extra
effort to defend himself. Now we give Elbow a chance to defend himself, fair
enough? |
|
c*********5
发帖数: 458 | 44 我妈妈两天前因为摔倒,右肘关节脱臼并骨折.急诊处理后,脱臼复位. 附上复位前后的X
光片,请问,骨折严重吗? 需要进一步治疗吗? 脱臼复位的成功吗? 石膏需要打多久?需
要多久以后进行X光复查? 像这种情况,愈后情况会理想吗? 手臂活动能力会受影响吗?
多谢各位专家的指教!
FINDINGS: 3 views of the right elbow. Dislocation of
the elbow
joint. Several fracture fragments are evident. The donor
sites are not
clearly visible. There is evidence for fracture of at
least to the
olecranon and the radial head.
IMPRESSION:
1. Dislocated... 阅读全帖 |
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e****0
发帖数: 678 | 45 • Exaggerated deep tendon reflexes can be seen in lock in syndrome.
• Non bleeding varices are managed with nonselective beta-
adrenergic antagonists, such as propranolol.
• Sclerotherapy, endoscopic band ligation, and surgery are
indicated after a patient has a first episode of variceal bleeding.
• TIPS is a last resort in variceal bleeding unresponsive to
medical and endoscopic intervention.
• Ischemic colitis
CT—thickening of eth bowel ... 阅读全帖 |
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i*********5
发帖数: 19210 | 46 是的，叫做＂signature kick＂
孙杨: In general, 孙杨 exhibits the "half-catchup" style of stroke that has
become more common in the last decade or so. This half-catchup style is also
referred to as 'front quadrant" swimming. As for his kick, Yang
demonstrates a variety of kick frequencies, alternating between a 2,4 and 6-
beat kick during recent races, although he seems to settle into a 4-beat as
the dominant rhythm through much off the middle of his races. Yang also
demonstrates a pronounced "signature kic... 阅读全帖 |
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i*********5
发帖数: 19210 | 47 Is The High-Elbow Pull Best For The Freestyle Swim Stroke?
http://triathlon.competitor.com/2013/07/training/is-the-high-el
The high-elbow pull, for those who are not familiar, keeps the elbow close
to the surface as only the hand and forearm lower to pull instead of
dropping the entire arm as in the deep pull. |
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i*********5
发帖数: 19210 | 48 Holding the side bars 就等于是把马当驴骑。More than 90% of the time, you are
supposed to be in aero position by resting your elbows on the bar pads and
holding the bar extensions with your hands.
http://www.aerobars.co.uk/
"The aerodynamics of aerobars"
The whole purpose of using this addition to your handlebars is to get your
body into a shape which minimises wind resistance. This is obviously more
important on fast flat or downhill sections than on climbs.
The idea is that you use your aero bars to move... 阅读全帖 |
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S*******s
发帖数: 13043 | 49 The Nevada State Athletic Commission currently lists the following as fouls:
1.Butting with the head
2.Eye gouging of any kind
3.Biting
4.Hair pulling
5.Fish hooking
6.Groin attacks of any kind
7.Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an
opponent. (see Gouging)
8.Small joint manipulation
9.Striking to the spine or the back of the head (see Rabbit punch)
10.Striking downward using the point of the elbow (see Elbow (strike))
11.Throat strikes of any kind, including, wit |
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W*******n
发帖数: 4140 | 50 【The following file was given by me to some physicians, including Dr.
Robert S. April on my Nov. 08, 2019 visit. A very similar file was given to
a treating physician, Dr. Mehrdad Golzad. An earlier version was provided to
NYS Workers' Compensation Board and the WC insurance adjuster Ms. Lisa
White in June 2019. Almost nobody cares. Medical readers can understand why
the deniers want to wipe Neck off the established list of established injury
sites, because the Neck was seriously injured during ... 阅读全帖 |
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