y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 1 From my experience, this game is all by fold equity. The less show down
wining, the better.
But my shoving gets called a lot, which is not good for me and the caller.
They shove on me, I hate to call them, but I just have the hand. I have to
call, but lose a ton.
Comparing my result on 20$ level, I do not encounter so many callers,(which means I can scoop the blinds without SD) and I do not need to handle so much shovers(, which means I do not need to call them).
At 35$ level, I have 25% 3rd fi... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 2 per my observation, it really takes a lot of guts for a guy to over over
shove on river without nuts.
they tend to over bet sometimes with weaker hands like lower flush, BUT
there's still a strong line between shoving and over betting. |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 3 The pot does not look right.. 3.5bb steal, you 3 bet 11.50bb? how can the
pot be only 13.5bb?
your c bet should be around 2/3 pot. Not too big, but not too small. Facing
mini raise, i think it is 50 50 to shove or fold. The board hits your range
very heavy, so I think his raise is for real. But with that being said, he
could also miniraise this with 10J QJ 109 and 10s KQ all the pair with gut
shot hand and all his flush draws, pair with flush draw. So I probably shove myself. 3 bet pre is good.... 阅读全帖 |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 4 Right. The quest is what is the best shove/calling range?!
Say, you at BB w/ 500 chips with JKs (4 left and top 3 get $).
SB with 500 chips also and shove? Are you to call?
If you do ICM calculation, you calling range need be AJo+/99+
(I guess, SHould be close). But can you wait for AJo+/99+. |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 5 losing session:
1. losing flips
2. BVB, SB shoves atc to you, you call, and losing
BVB, you(SB) shove atc on BB, get called a lot, and losing
3. HU: always second
4. on the bubble: your KK runs into AA, AJs runs into AK Cooler
5. Encounter ppl who do not understand ICM. You push j3o on the bubble, he
calls with jto with 2nd chip stack
6. SPEW: losing entire stack as the chip leader(stack size ratio: 2: 1: 0.8)
in 2 hands |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 6 还好有驴不停的往我的nuts 上shove (some donks just love to shove with 0%
equity)... 感谢他们, 否则第一天就要红了...
=====================
Full Tilt Poker $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players -
Hero (BTN): $346.50
SB: $112.95
BB: $102.00
UTG: $101.00
UTG+1: $178.95
UTG+2: $230.40
MP1: $102.50
MP2: $103.70
CO: $191.65
Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN with Qd Kd
6 folds, Hero raises to $3, SB raises to $7, 1 fold, Hero calls $4
Flop: ($15.00) 9s 8d 4d (2 players)
SB bets $9.00, Hero calls $9
Turn: ($33.00) 6d (2 players)
SB c... 阅读全帖 |
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c*****t
发帖数: 817 | 7 I think the only thing you can do is to move to higher stake to play against
good players. Against good players, you know that, at bubble, if there is a
short stack, SB vs BB you can shove with any two cards. You wont get called
unless he has a premium hand. He wont call you light to flip a coin.
Those players at micro/low stakes just suck. They know nothing about ICM
model. They know nothing about that they should push more and call less. For
the same hand, they dare not to push but got the cou... 阅读全帖 |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 8 bad luck continues.
But after I review my hand history, I find I make a lot of sucking calls on
the bubble also.
But usually the scenario is 3 even stacks, I am a little behind.
The most recent 2 bubbles
Hand 1: blinds 40/80, utg shoves 720, I have 44 in the bb with a stack
around 500(80 chips in the pot, 420 left in the stack) I think a little bit,
and calls.
UTG shows A6o I lose
Hand 2: blinds 60/30, I have 515 chips, SB has 515 chips, SB shoves on me, I
tank a while, and call with k8o
SB... 阅读全帖 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 9 are you talking about the first hand?
It really depends on your read. when you can narrow villian's range to a
point where you are ahead most of them, of course push as hard as you can to
get a call. This is where you magnify your edge when you are ahead. When
the edge becomes small between players, whoever pushes most thin value is
going to win out in the end. "Small pot when behind"+"bigger pot when ahead"
=profit.
For this particular hand, I only called pot size bet on the flop because I
wa... 阅读全帖 |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 10 you have position, and you should bet a little under 1/2 pot to trap, but no
way you should check the flop.
on that flop, flush draw may shove you, any pair may shove you for protect.
Believe or not, flush draw will never call there out of position.
I like your flat trapping very much.
No
35: |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 11 Basically, your play is kind of too passive.
You do not protect your hand well, plus you do not manipulate the pot size
well, if you think you have the best hand, you should manage to put an allin
bet on the river.
You get a lot of suck out. ------ One good comment is said by DUCKU. I
usually play very aggressively, and do not let opponent drawing cheaply, and
do not see showdown, it greatly lowers the suckouts.
Your first hand QQ should definitely to commit on the turn. Even you can put
a small... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 12 long hours, 40th in miniftops event #4, 3954 players, 1st gets $77K.
shoved the same 3x opener in previous hand, and thought this one was a sure win
(2 shoves in a row strength), BB woke up with monster.
result sucks but may be the best tourney i ever played:
1) played with annettt_15, lol, and busted one ex ftop champ;
2) pulled quite a few big bluffs with air on river, big pots;
3) played stack/pot well. |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 13 LOL. Being nit is the way to go in Rush, in my opinion since you do not
know how your opp play a lot of times. Honestly, I do not think many reg
even look at these stat at Rush. My stat is one of nittest in Rush and my 3
betting range range OOP against EP raiser are extremely tight, mainly KK
and AA. But when I 3 betting in BB with AA and KK, I still got shoved a lot
with AK, QQ, even JJ by some decent reg. A lot of reg in NL 400 always
auto shove AK, regargless opp/sitution. AK never pl... 阅读全帖 |
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g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 14 Never broke in a limp pot.
Such a fish play, limp UTG, check behind on flop and MIN 3 bet on turn. he
is telling hero " I have a set, I give you a free card to hit your set or 2
pair. please bet on river and I can get more values." He is not ever
thinking that hero will not shove on river unless hero has str8(whether nuts
str8 or not is not important, just shove if make the str8). Even Hero has
set, hero can only call at the most time.
to |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 15 Raise flop. 3 bet shove > mini 3 bet turn
Edit: stack too deep to shove turn but raise to at least 50-60$ |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 16 我来胡扯两句我自己理解的6 max 和fr 的区别.
1) preflop range: Many people think they should play "looser" for 6 max
than fr, but the fact is that even if we play the exact same range like fr
for 6 max, we are going to have a higher vpip for 6 max. Why? If you play
fr, just open your HM and look at your vpip by position, bb, sb, button, co,
mp and ep. Normally for a decent player, you will have much higher vpip for
button, co, but extremely tight for ep. If you filter out the ep and
average the vpip, you will h... 阅读全帖 |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 17 Those buddies are pretty crazy.
First hand, SB pushes on me, I have K7 suited. I think that the pot has only
45 chips, no need to get involved in such marginal situation.
Then, it becomes crazy, he just shoves every single Small blinds.
The guy I mentioned before just shoves every hand on the bubble. If I fold
A2o there, then the next hand I could get dealt with 85o, j4o, then I really
can not call at all. So, I take the risk to get him out.
on
who |
|
p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 18
Played a hand with a redline pro Hans Vogl in 2-4 NL Rush. We played many
hands same table, but first time to play big pot.
I raised with Th9h in LP to 10, he 3 bet me to 32 out of SB, I called. both
are about 400$ deep. Flop comes KJQ, rainbow, he lead out about 2/3 the
pot, I just shoved on the flop. It is very unlikely he 3 bet me with AT, and
there are too many turn card can kill the action. he snap called with AA,
only invest about 70, have to call 330 more.
AA is pretty much a bluf... 阅读全帖 |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 19 Against SB's 3 betting, JJ and QQ are huge part of my calling range. My
4 bet range is 0.9, which is pretty much AA and KK. I only 4 bet AK, QQ
against guys whose 3 betting range is over 5.
It is a common mistake that these low stake/middle state players make
to keep shoving with AK, QQ when over 100 BB deep against 3 betting or 4
betting. In the book Let's there be range , there are discussing about it.
Villian need to bluff more 18% time for you to shove with AK/QQ to be
correct af... 阅读全帖 |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 20 he is not shoving with just a pair of Ace there. When you make such move,
you have to think what hand you can rep. Not like" oh. I missed, I have to
bet/shove to win" |
|
T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 21 我知道你在 button 看到人家 raise 总是心痒痒的想要 make move 3-BET ，OK，我在
bb 被迫仍了一对 JJ，然后拿了板凳看好戏。
这下好，给人 4-bet 58 后，你立即 shove 5-bet allin，被人家 snap call 了。敢
情就是你就是用这牌 shove。我都倒了，两个人超过 200 bb,pre-flop, 就这牌面。
靠，至少也要用一个 suited connector 或 小 pair 吧，或两张 live card 吧，敢情
A high 就这样搞，poker after dark 看多了，都把自己当 durrrr 了。 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 22 He didn't even fold 55 post flop. He was never folding pre. Vs this type of
player it is better to get it in early ahead. Think about all the time when
you don't hit your set and there is an over card. It will be very costly to
make a mistake post flop when so much is in the pot already. Maybe flat aa, since there is no over cad for you and
just shove flop. 3 bet and 5 bet Shoving 10 10+ aq+ is definite +ev bvb vs this type of player. |
|
p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 23 this kind of play is very situational and player dependant. Based on my
history with villian, he knows my UTG range is super tight(AQs+, 77+), and I
am not cbeting on that board much. Also, he would just call with pair with
str draw or (88-qq) based on my past hand history and his vid. It seems to
me that min raise is to induce a shove.
There is also risk/reward issue. I only have one over pair and my
hand is so hard to improve. I do NOT know what I want to see on turn and
rive... 阅读全帖 |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 24 dude, TT shoves JJ pre and AJ shoves pre?? calm down, don't swing like this,
hehe, keep your hot month going with caution and patience.
AK
.. |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 25 actually if he has a read on you, I think folding 2 pair or set is not too
crazy vs you here. Have you ever played like this with AA AK at this spot?
if you want to play tricky, call, and jam river, you might get looked up
lighter. I don't think he is on a strong draw, because he would probably
have raised flop. but even if he is on a draw, he probably bluff river
anyway just because you flat turn. When you are unwilling to put the stack
in on the turn on a drawy board, he will think he can blu... 阅读全帖 |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 26 my bad. I missed you are out of position. I guess no matter how you play you
look strong with this hand. might as well bet bet bet. He might just get creative to raise you somewhere or call you down light. who knows... (or bet bet check raise river?) check raise turn here pretty much blow away all of his hands. Like you said AK AA is not even going to pay off more. even check call and lead shove river looks super strong to me, but he might think otherwise.
or you can check call turn and block... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 27 靠，别提了，几个大点的pot全栽了，read全对，结果全错，让同一个reg但是明显在
tilt胡打的给sucked out。
AJs limped UTG, he directly shoved low 50BB or so (he did this a few times
already), another short guy called and was all-in too. i never limp called
with AJs in the spot before but was so natural this time. YES, he got TJo
and the other guy 89o. he sucked me with a T, and the other guy hit river
gutshot str8.
TT 4 bet shoved pre against him, he snap called with 66 (80BB), i rivered
str8 and he hit 4 card flush with 6h, damn. the oth... 阅读全帖 |
|
p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 28 我会preflop 3bet 到 100， 如果他shove我call， 如果他call， flop 基本任何牌都
可以 shove
as played， 这个flop 简直比AAK的flop还好 |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 29 I agree, 3 betting against SB raise here looks too strong.
shove the turn when aggro SB bet big.
or you can simply shove on the flop, looks you have hand like JT and do not
want to get called.
target |
|
l*****r
发帖数: 2123 | 30 同意， raise 他的reraise 基本上就告诉他我有set。 毛驴虽然毛，但不傻。 我也倾
向于call或者shove
as played, I just shoved , he 很快就call了， call了以后问我是不是hit了set，
LP fold 说是A9， 他是89o turn river didn't help him
not |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 31 too many points, let me see see by 5 each time.
[1] ppl show us hands for some reasons, either to confuse us or brag. if he
can do pot with total air sometimes, he should have enough expr/read to know
who on this table are his main opponents/targets. with this said, we should
stay alert and judge hands case by case. you ddidn't mention your position
here, so i assume you're BB and not a limper. i'd keep the pot controlled
and just flat most of time, or do a raise to $50 to show real strength (
b... 阅读全帖 |
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p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 32 I think it is a shove. 4 queens and runner-runner flush (any spade in the
rainbow?) gives you 20% equity. Ace may be outs, which gives you 32%,
exactly all that you need given the pot size & her stack size. factor in the
fold equity, I think it is a shove.
edit: we can consider ace partial outs, like 5% equity instead of solid 12%, since
there are times when villain show up with 2 pairs/sets/str8. then we only need her to
fold 7% of the time to break even. I believe she fold more than 7% of the ... 阅读全帖 |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 33 想自己写个 程序， 分析hu short stack 的 情况，太久没有码code 了， 问个可
能会被
大家笑掉大牙的 土问题。
http://www.pokerstove.com/analysis/preflop-matchups.txt.gz
因为想写个shove/fold/call shove 的分析,不需要post flop 分析，所以只需要把
上面link 这些 C(169,2) = 14196 数据读出来，放到一个169*169 二维数组里，
当然以后要考虑 hand的 频率问题。 把hand match equity 转换成一个double 数据
就好了。 想 AAvs AKs= 0.878595 vs. 0.121405= 0.878595/0.121405= 7.2368.
那位牛人，能给个c/c++ 的 sample code.
还有把这14k 数据 直接读出来在内存运行， 会很大影响速度吗， 还是要建一个
hash table 类 的东西。
让大家见笑了， 谢谢！ |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 34 dude, no offesne, but you are talking about things that you do not have
much experience with. It does not make any sense to measure winning rate
with bb/100 in live no cap cash game. I agree with Li Shu.
no. You do not need to be super good to win 200$/h in no cap 10-20
NL or 100$/h in 5-10 no cap NL. I play a lot of no cap cash game myself.
The deeper stack does not only improve the edge a little, it actually a
major factor of your edge. Also, there are actually some rich busine... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 35 on the flop:
1) he's pretty sure you don't have Ah for that $225 bet;
2) calling $130 with TT preflop is unlikely;
3) your hand is almost face up.
$225 is designed to get called or shoved (not folded). if you shove, he's
getting a little better than 1:2, or OK with his AhX to draw.
if he got a made hand, you're dead meat.
A |
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p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 36 I will shove. pot is 427, you have 770. villain could have Ax with Ah. with
the pot so big, he can open shove (if station's stack not deep as well) or
bet/call with Ah. |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 37 1. 在打hu时， 假如我有一个ace,对手也有一个ace, 那flop 上出现一个ace
的概率的多大？ 两个ace 的概率呢？还有， 假如我们都有一个ａｃｅ， 不同的ｋ
ｉｃｋｅｒ,那一个ａｃｅ出现在ｆｌｏｐ上， 并且一个人hit到two pairs的概率是
多少。Say I got AK, he got A3, and the flops comes Ax3.
2. 假如我的牌不是对，say K7, 那么我其中一张牌ｆｌｏｐ a pair, 并且是top
pair的概率是多少？我们可以忽略 trips(0.7%) 和two pairs(3.4%) 的情况。k7 和kj
hit top pair的概率肯定是不同的， 因为 因为J 是 top pair的 几率肯定大于 7.
因为ace 肯定是ｔｏｐ ｐａｉｒ, 所以分析 ５－ｋ就好了。
3. About Suited connector or suited on gap. SC can flop a hand that can
beat over pair about 10%(flopped flush, ... 阅读全帖 |
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l*****r
发帖数: 2123 | 38 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 请教一手牌 也许应该raise 到120，当他raise到70的时候我觉得他也hit到了flush，但是是小
flush，我实际shove了，他想了很久，纠结地fold了，告诉我他hit到了福禄寿（flush
）。还求dealer show river card, 看到river是Jc 心情好多，似乎他没有骗我。
也许mini raise 更好。
matter
position
shove). |
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g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 39 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 请教一手牌 not 210 left, only 180 left after the turn bet. Need call 40 on turn or re-
raise. With pot size 160+40, shove 180-40 back is ok.
matter
position
shove). |
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g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 40 Good question. However, shove on flop will make LP's decision way easier. it
's a clear fold because of the odds. Do we want to LP to fold here? no. do
we want LP to see the turn? yes but need to pay. Managing the sizing here
is tough as re-raising/shoving the EP will let LP decision making way easy(
fold with no questions). But just call is not perfect either as it will also
let EP decision making easy(easy call). I guess either way is ok, I prefer
calling.
Tougher situation to your opponent -... 阅读全帖 |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 41 When they make this kind of hero call, they have strong read based on
reasoning, how opponent play, tells etc. So these kind of call is huge +EV
if you really know what you are doing. Of course you can be wrong, just like
calling with second nuts on the river can be wrong as well.
When Phil Galdfond called a over 80k river shove with TT on KQQ86 board,
he run Pokerstove and he thought he had over 80% equality against villian's
shove range. He was against J9 that hand.
were
and |
|
p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 42 http://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-hand-of-the-day_the-best-han
Dolye's call with J high on the river is another classic hand.
They have strong reason to make this kind of call. For me, unless in
heads up situation which justify a lot of loose call against opp who bluff a
lot with missed draw, I do not like this kind of hero call often unless I
have very strong reasoning to do so. There is always risk/reward issue that
you want to consider. Do not worry about being bluffed out some... 阅读全帖 |
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 43 Final table, 6 handed, 10K/20K 2000 ante. Hero UTG w/ QQ raise to 55K w/
600K behind, fold to SB shove w/ 400K, BB fold w/ 40K left. Hero?
BB was really short and payout was quite significant from 6th to 5th so I
don't think SB would shove with anything less than AK. The only hand I can
really think I am beating is either TT or JJ but still folding QQ 6 handed
seems like a bad decision. Any thoughts? |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 44 Also, you may not need to worry about the payout from 6
on
chance
Zan! That is also something that I consider when playing short stack HUSNG
sometime too. When I am very short(less than 10BB usually) , I call a
preflop shove with hands like 78s. These hand are very likely behind but not
likely to be dominated. A majority time it is 40/60 against villian's
shoving range. Winning the hand will put me back to the match and get a
shot to win it. |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 45 TNND，还没到11月，这边就飘起了雪，结果半夜没敢开车回家，路太滑，又玩了一宿。
现说Hollywood这个poker room吧，论硬件，不如周围的delaware park，狭长的一个屋
子，很挤，两张桌子一排，一溜排出去30张，中间过道仅够挤着走人，非常不舒服，不
少桌子灯光也不好，看牌费劲，虽然牌都是大字。
但是论软件，这里的action非常loose，人气也很高，满座，而且能开出几桌5/10NL，5
/5 PLO这样的大桌，在非赌城之外不多见。
最loose的两把1/2NL(非俺)：
1)一个超级LAG，坐下来$300，calls preflop $15, re-raise and calls all-in on
985 flop with 93o (oh, yeah) vs. QQ, hits 3 on river... feels like a hero,
lol. then donks keep bluffing him with air, and he hero calls with bottom
pair alike hands, soon builds his ... 阅读全帖 |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 46 OK，几牌俺自己的牌吧，其实没什么精彩之处。
1) AJs，LP, raise to $15, 2 limp callers.
flop: Jc5s6s, both check to me, bet $15 (打得有问题)，MP check raises to $30
，i call, the other guy folds.
turn: Td or some blank. MP bets $30 (interesting), i shove $$110, he thinks
for a while and calls with As3s.
river: 4s, i got wiped out.
i ask him what if i come on top on flop, he says still he'd call most of
time with two cards coming.
2) re-load $200, a few hands later, pick up QQ at button, $20 into a limped
pot, UTG and MP call... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 47 整体说来，牌还是相当不错的：
1) Kc9c, flop 2 nut flush, chip leader re-shoves on paired turn, not a very
difficult call for my then remaining stack size ($150), he shows Qc5c.
2) 5c6c at LP, flops Ac2c4c with a gutshot str8 flush draw too, $200+ pot,
don't get enough value from LP chinese guy. he's a super passive calling
station. turn 2, river blank.
但是非常不满意自己打的很多过程，比如这把:
AQo at BB, limped pot, i check.
flop A56 rainbow, i check, MP (normal) bets $12, LP chip leader calls. i
worry about LP more since he has ... 阅读全帖 |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 48 agree. hudge misstake to shove A5 when 40 BB deep. I usually shove less than
15 BB with A rag against good players, and less than 10BB against weak
player that I can outplay him postflop a lot.
in
Flop
a |
|
c****1
发帖数: 457 | 49 正常情况他们应该不会这样。Live game有时候比online更容易情绪失控，脸对脸的，
有的时候对手还挑逗你，特别容易tilt，总想找刚才赢你的对手报酬。其实我进final
table的时候，我是chip leader，上来就一个bad beat。我kk，对手shove 77，我call
， 最后turn出了个7. 我当时也是一团怒火，你丫25BB 你就shove 77，让我三分之一
的stack都没了。还好心中的怒火被压制住了。 |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 50 for the q9 hand , I think he should shove on the flop to get max folding
equality since he is going to call the shove anyway.
4 |
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