w*********r
发帖数: 42116 | 1 Meanwhile, heavy bombardment continued to rock the rebel stronghold of
Donetsk, which has become the key battleground in the four-month-old
conflict between the Ukrainian military and pro-Russian separatists.
An AFP journalist heard repeated shelling in the city throughout the morning
and again in the afternoon. Local authorities said mortar fire hit
neighbourhoods north and southwest of the centre, and one person was killed.
Ukraine reported 13 casualties in the last 24 hours.
The new prime min... 阅读全帖 |
|
w*******y
发帖数: 60932 | 2 GetGamesGo has Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad for $12.
The game activates on Steam. Good price for a solid multiplayer game
released just a few months ago. Steam's best daily deal for it a few days
ago was $20.
It's a more realistic FPS than CoD or BF3 but is thought by many to have
more depth.
|
|
g******t
发帖数: 18158 | 3 David Glantz
David M. Glantz (born 11 January 1942 in Port Chester, New York) is an
American military historian and the editor of the Journal of Slavic Military
Studies.
Glantz received degrees in history from the Virginia Military Institute and
the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and is a graduate of the U.
S. Army Command and General Staff College, Defense Language Institute,
Institute for Russian and Eastern European Studies, and U.S. Army War
College. He entered active service w... 阅读全帖 |
|
s**********e
发帖数: 33562 | 4 老先生怎么也想不到他收的两封信都是从本版出来的。不过年近古稀的老先生第二天就
回了信，让我很感动。在次向老先生致谢，希望老先生长命百岁，多给咱们写几本书。
Dear Tigereatmeat,
Strangely enough, yours is the second such question I have received in the
past two days. By way of an answer let me simply quote what I wrote to the
other person, who was asking if the Red Army actually employed blocking
detachments at Stalingrad. I wrote the following:
The Red Army began employing "blocking detachments" to prevent panic,
desertion, and disobedience to orders in September 1941 on ... 阅读全帖 |
|
b********n
发帖数: 38600 | 5 Top 10 reasons why Hitler lost WWII
10 The policy to Never Retreat
Hitler as we all know lived in his fantasy world more than he did in reality
, and this was the reason why he believed that determination of his soldiers
would be honored in the battlefield, without giving much heed to the
reality. His soldiers were only commanded to move forward, but never retreat
. When he denied Frederich Paulus the permission to retreat, it resulted in
the total loss of the of 6th Panzer Army.
9 Hitler dismis... 阅读全帖 |
|
s******8
发帖数: 7105 | 6
Various scholars have estimated the Axis suffered 850,000 casualties of all
types (wounded, killed, captured...etc) among all branches of the German
armed forces and its allies, many of which were POWs who died in Soviet
captivity between 1943 and 1955. 400,000 Germans, 200,000 Romanians, 130,000
Italians, and 120,000 Hungarians were killed, wounded or captured. Of the
91,000 German POWs taken at Stalingrad 27,000 died within weeks and only 5,
000 returned to Germany in 1955. The remainder of t... 阅读全帖 |
|
r*****y
发帖数: 53800 | 7 1 电影里好像喊的是斯大林命令不许撤退。
--------------------------------------------------
凤凰大视野里也说了，城防委员会本来是准备组织平民撤退的，但是斯大林很不高兴认
为这会造成恐慌，所以后来没有组织。大喇叭喊斯大林命令不许撤退很正常。
2 GLANTZ的书里有一句话提到伏尔加舰队晚上把伤员和平民运到河东，不过这是10月的
事情了，9月也许没有。
-----------------------------------------------
凤凰大视野里也有采访的俄国老百姓说他们是乘船和伤员一起运到河东的，不过人数少
，也不一定是事先组织的，而是个人行为。100多万平民被留在河西，逃到河东的平民
大约10万。
3 处决1万4逃兵的具体出处是哪里？
-----------------------------------------
wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_stalingrad
Various scholars have estimated the Axis suffere... 阅读全帖 |
|
s******g
发帖数: 3530 | 8 http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/robert-fisk-siniste
Robert Fisk: Sinister efforts to minimise Japanese war crimes and portray
the empire as a victim must be exposed
The man known as Abe’s ‘brain’ says Japan has become ‘a hopelessly
pacifist nation’
I had to go to California to learn that Michiko Shiota Gingery, who lives in
the Central Park area of Glendale City, suffers “feelings of exclusion,
discomfort and anger” because her local authority unveiled a memorial to
the innocent Asia... 阅读全帖 |
|
发帖数: 1 | 9 自己读吧。第一段说的是他没有take over 指挥之前的态势分析， 第二段式他指挥集
团军群后的分析和决定。
Without going into the details of the first few days of the Soviet offensive
, one may safely say that the encirclement of Sixth Army could only have
been prevented if the latter had attempted a break-out in the very early
stages, either by crossing the Don to the west or by striking south-west
along the east side of the river. The onus of ordering it to do so lay with
the Supreme Command. While General Paulus should certainly have taken ... 阅读全帖 |
|
g******t
发帖数: 18158 | 10 电影中的德国飞机是 Junkers Ju 87 or Stuka
The Junkers Ju 87 or Stuka (from Sturzkampfflugzeug, "dive bomber") was a
two-man (pilot and rear gunner) German dive bomber and ground-attack
aircraft. Designed by Hermann Pohlmann, the Stuka first flew in 1935 and
made its combat debut in 1936 as part of the Luftwaffe's Condor Legion
during the Spanish Civil War.
更多介绍可以看这个视频
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_UAY4uRyw
MG 17机枪是这种飞机的标配：
The offensive armament was two 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 17 machine guns fitted
one... 阅读全帖 |
|
|
v*****s
发帖数: 20290 | 12 Anthony Beevor
"The pages selected for us consisted of letters of praise addressed to
Comrade Stalin from soldiers on the Stalingrad Front. The rest was exactly
what I had been looking for: a detailed record, day by day, without any
propaganda gloss. They described the acts of heroism, but also the ‗
extraordinary events‘ which was commissar-speak for desertions, self-
inflicted injuries, drunkenness of commanders, alcohol poisoning of soldiers
, retreating without orders, ‗counter-r... 阅读全帖 |
|
g******t
发帖数: 18158 | 13
GLANTZ今天早上给我回了email，感情《Enemy at the Gates》的电影制片人早就请教
过人家了：
Dear @@@@@@@@@:
The Red Army began employing "blocking detachments" to prevent panic,
desertion, and disobedience to orders in September 1941 on request by
General Eremenko, the commander of the Briansk Front. This directive
permitted units in the Briansk Front to employ artilleery in addition to
rifles and machine guns to inforce discipline. The Red Army's High Command (
Stavka) formalized the practice in summer 1942 by virtue of its ... 阅读全帖 |
|
g******t
发帖数: 18158 | 14
答挺快，头天提问，第二天他就回答了
The Red Army began employing "blocking detachments" to prevent panic,
desertion, and disobedience to orders in September 1941 on request by
General Eremenko, the commander of the Briansk Front. This directive
permitted units in the Briansk Front to employ artilleery in addition to
rifles and machine guns to inforce discipline. The Red Army's High Command (
Stavka) formalized the practice in summer 1942 by virtue of its Order 227.
The same order also formed penal detachments,... 阅读全帖 |
|
w********2
发帖数: 632 | 15 Publication Cover
Journal
The Journal of Slavic Military Studies
Volume 19, 2006 - Issue 2
Journal homepage
186
Views
0
CrossRef citations
3
Altmetric
Original Articles
British “Lend-Lease” Tanks and the Battle for Moscow, November–December
1941—A Research Note
Alexander Hill
Pages 289-294 | Published online: 21 Sep 2006
Download citation https://doi.org/10.1080/13518040600697811
Select Language▼
Translator disclaimer
Full Article Figures & data Citations Metrics Reprints & Permis... 阅读全帖 |
|
|
|
s**********e
发帖数: 33562 | 18 老朱对火星战役的确是轻描淡写，但是战役的过程的描述还是基本合理的。曼帅的问题
是扭曲事实啊。这还是不太一样。
空军这个事情，事实上在觐见希特勒前，空军专业将领告诉曼帅的是他们根本无法满足
斯大林格勒的空运需求。所以，戈林是夸海口，而空军将领給曼帅的是具体的计算（这
个在曼施坦因的传记里面有具体介绍），曼帅如果选择不听专业将领的具体分析而是相
信戈林的信口开河，那也是曼帅自己的严重错误啊。
下面这本书里面也记录了不少曼施坦因歪曲事实的地方：
https://www.amazon.de/Stalingrad-Analyse-Dokumentation-einer-Schlacht/dp/
3421016534/ref=la_B001K6WBIC_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1476302438&sr=1-1
下面是UNC的历史学家 Weinberg 对曼帅的评价
Because of the sensitivity of the Stalingrad question in post-war Germany,
Manstein worked as hard to dis... 阅读全帖 |
|
s********g
发帖数: 334 | 19 这是见鬼了.
老毛子有啥英雄, 天朝也要制造一个.
就象苏联英雄亚历山大·马特洛索夫, 天朝就生产一个黄继光.
Battle of Stalingrad (23 August 1942 – 2 February 1943)
Vasily Grigoryevich Zaytsev (Russian: Васи́лий Григо́
рьевич За́йцев; IPA: [vɐˈsʲilʲɪj
ɡrʲɪˈɡorʲjɪvʲɪtɕ ˈzajtsɨ
f]; 23 March 1915 – 15 December 1991) was a Soviet sniper and a Hero of the
Soviet Union during World War II. Prior to 10 November, he killed 32 Axis
soldiers with the standard-issue Mos... 阅读全帖 |
|
s**********e
发帖数: 33562 | 20 昨天夜读 The Road to Stalingrad(这书糟糕的是一幅地图都没有，只好自己打印了一
些)，里面讲到红军一开始的混乱，13集团军司令部奉命到明斯克去组织抵抗(这个集团
军5月才刚刚成立)，司令部人员连个人武器都没有，到明斯克后唯一的武器补充是六支
步枪和19把手枪。后来碰上德国人的坦克，他们在没有武器的情况下被打死了一半，剩
下的人跑出去继续指挥。 |
|
g******t
发帖数: 18158 | 21
乌克兰媒体 Den (Ukrainian: День, The Day) 上的文章，作者Ivan DIIAK（
Ivan Diiak was a member of the Ukrainian parliament, 3rd convocation）乌克兰
的议员
http://www.day.kiev.ua/251238/
Not a single work of fiction or research on the war has failed to note the
fact that there were machine-guns in the rear shooting Soviet troops. There
is not a single positive reference to those units, and only in exceptional
cases did they join the regular troops and take part in combat. A barrier
unit commander could be punished fo... 阅读全帖 |
|
g******t
发帖数: 18158 | 22
这个也不知道是哪个反俄罗斯分子写的，要不要把作者也人肉一下？
http://www.vectorsite.net/twsnow_08.html
“However, as far as Stalin was concerned, if Hitler wanted Stalingrad he
was going to pay for it. The Red Army was not going to fight a delaying
action at the city -- it was going to hold it or die trying. If anyone in
the ranks had any different ideas, he was likely to die anyway. In late July
, Stalin had signed "Secret Order 227", nicknamed "Not One Step Backwards",
making unauthorized retreats punishable by death.
This ... 阅读全帖 |
|
v*****s
发帖数: 20290 | 23 从david glantz 10年的一个interview来看，他是肯定徒手冲锋再加督战队机枪的存在
的，即使是284师。
What is the Soviet strategy?
To feed just enough troops into the city to keep it from falling. They are
sacrificial lambs. Divisions that come in with 10,000 men have 500 the next
day. Many divisions are fragments. The 13th Guards, always described as an
elite force, was destroyed two months before; they're sent in half-trained
and one-third equipped. The 284th Rifle Division, popularized in the film
Enemy at the Gates—only one of its... 阅读全帖 |
|
v*****s
发帖数: 20290 | 24 你这个说法和david glantz上面的回信很一致。
Although Chuikov's 62nd Army used blocking detachments in the early stages
of the Stalingrad fighting, by October 1942 these detachments were
themselves fighting in the front lines, side-by-side with Red Army troops. |
|
t*n
发帖数: 14458 | 25 渡河时候没枪是真的
不过没有徒手冲锋的确实记录
记得以前看到是冲锋之前给发了枪
徒手冲锋太脑残了，除了送死p用没有
从david glantz 10年的一个interview来看，他是肯定徒手冲锋再加督战队机枪的存在
的，即使是284师。
What is the Soviet strategy?
To feed just enough troops into the city to keep it from falling. They are
sacrificial lambs. Divisions that come in with 10,000 men have 500 the next
day. Many divisions are fragments. The 13th Guards, always described as an
elite force, was destroyed two months before; they're sent in half-trained
and one-third equipped. The 284th Rifle Division,... 阅读全帖 |
|
s**********e
发帖数: 33562 | 26 当然不可能凭空了。
WHEN TITANS CLASH 第 305页给出了具体出处：
E. F. Eimke, From Stalingrad to Berlin: The German Defeat in the East, 1968
Fremde Herre Ost comparative strength reports |
|
r*****y
发帖数: 53800 | 27 E. F. Eimke, From Stalingrad to Berlin: The German Defeat in the East, 1968
--------------------
这本书是怎么说的？哪一页？有地域分布吗？
1968 |
|
g****t
发帖数: 31659 | 28 人都说了 coldly accurate了.而且人说了细节他当年审核过.
并且虚构的点已经指出来了.这还用的着问么.
老虎肉说人家没有严格回答他的问题.这是因为他不知道什么叫阅读理解,什么叫修辞.
任何一个懂英语的人,肯定知道下面这段话的意思就是除了german sniper,
其它细节在我这儿都没问题.
As for "Enemy at the Gates," the film, which the producers brought to me to
review shortly before its release, is coldly accurate, in particular the
opening sections showing the crossing of the Volga into the ruins of the
city. I confirm much of the detail in volume two of my trilogy on
Stalingrad, which covers the city fight. Thereafter, the... 阅读全帖 |
|
s**********e
发帖数: 33562 | 29 主要讲斯大林格勒会战胜利后，红军在1943年1月到3月的大规模进攻以及受挫。总的来
说资料非常详细。当然读起来也有些乏味，因为基本都是红军拼命进攻然后一再碰壁。
比较有趣一些的是曼斯坦因在哈尔科夫和顿巴斯方向的反击，Glantz 老先生给了很高
的评价。
书里面有几个伤亡数字比较匪夷所思：
一个是德国第9集团军从勒热夫突出部的撤退，红军尾随追击。根据德国人的记载，撤
退是很peaceful的。Glantz判断德军伤亡不会超过几千人，但是红军伤亡高达13万8千
人！这个比例实在是高得吓人，因为红军是追击，而不是攻坚。我们可以跟火星战役做
一个比较：这次战役里红军对德军的坚固阵地攻击一个月，伤亡21万人，德军伤亡4万
人，被Glantz称为朱可夫最大的失败，双方伤亡比1：5。而红军追击作战应该更为有利
，结果伤亡比反倒高到1：13以上！
另一个是中央方面军在1943年3月对德军防线徒劳的攻击，Glantz判断中央方面军伤亡
30万人（根据全年伤亡数字以及其他战役伤亡数字倒推出来的）。这个数字我也心存疑
窦，因为书中接下来就说到罗科索夫斯基对塔拉索夫的70集团军的heavy loss以及几无... 阅读全帖 |
|
v*****s
发帖数: 20290 | 30 呵呵，我就知道他一定找不到原始出处。
这个数字的原始出处是Beevor的"Stalingrad: The Fateful Siege"，他说他是在俄国
看的解密档案，呵呵。他还说第六集团军里面有5万前红军士兵为德国人打仗，其中一些是战俘，
一些是志愿者。我很怀疑这个英国历史学家有没有基本的数字概念。一万三就是一个整师，
NKVD的杀人效率估计远超6集了。5万人就是6集的1/4~1/6，就算俄国人愿意，德国人敢吗？
不怕毛子兵变？
按照网上的一个review，In September the NKVD blocking detachments detained
more than 1,218 men who were retreating from the field of battle, 21
were executed, 10 arrested, and the rest went back military units in the
front.
发表在journal of slavic military studies上的另外一个英国历史学家的book
review是这么说的。 |
|
k*****r
发帖数: 21039 | 31 50年夏天被朝鲜人民军占领一次，米军仁川登录后陷落一次，51年初志愿军解放一次，
4次战役很快放弃，米军又占领。
哈尔科夫，42年夏季被德国占领, recaptured after the battle of stalingrad.
then lost to the waffen-SS panzer corps in manstein's counter strike, until
recaptured again by red army later. |
|
z****e
发帖数: 54598 | 32 不奇怪，纳粹元首本人就亲华
校长跟元首的关系好着呢
后来仅仅是因为日本的反对，才使得中德交恶
纳粹援助校长不是新闻
我早说了，抗战时候，苏联，美国和纳粹德国几乎都在援助中国
能得到三大对立阵营boss同时垂青的
当时除了中国，别无二家
维基上今天抗日战争条目里面都还有留有这三个国家援助中国的段落
German support
Main article: Sino-German cooperation (1911–1941)
Prior to the outbreak of the war, Germany and China had close economic and
military cooperation, with Germany helping China modernize its industry and
military in exchange for raw materials. More than half of the German arms
exports during its rearmament period were to China. Neverthel... 阅读全帖 |
|
r******t
发帖数: 8967 | 33 Stalingrad片子不错，但故事一般。
要说好，《Der Untergang》那才德国 |
|
s********e
发帖数: 11693 | 34 好帖子，知道了几个没看过的好片。总结一下提到的片子：
拯救大兵瑞恩
The Thin Red Line
The Big Red One
Come and See
遥远的桥
桂河大桥
Kelly's Heros
《春天的十七个瞬间》
苏联版的《战争与和平》
<不列斯特要塞>
《库尔斯克》
Stalingrad
Das Boot
Der Untergang
<这里的黎明静悄悄>
<士兵之歌>
瓦尔特保卫萨拉热窝
兄弟连
最长的一日 |
|
g******t
发帖数: 18158 | 35
这里是乌克兰的议员Ivan DIIAK（Ivan Diiak was a member of the Ukrainian
parliament, 3rd convocation）在乌克兰媒体 Den (Ukrainian: День, The Day
) 上的文章：
链接：
http://www.day.kiev.ua/251238/
Not a single work of fiction or research on the war has failed to note the
fact that there were machine-guns in the rear shooting Soviet troops. There
is not a single positive reference to those units, and only in exceptional
cases did they join the regular troops and take part in combat. A barrier
unit commander could be pu... 阅读全帖 |
|
H****g
发帖数: 14447 | 36 1. 证实了毛泽东1975年写给周恩来这首诗。
《江山靠谁守·诉衷情》
当年忠贞为国筹，
何曾怕断头？
如今天下红遍，
江山靠谁守？
业未竟，
身躯倦，
鬓已秋。
你我之辈，
忍将夙愿，
付与东流？
2. 证实了1976年之前根本没有所谓饿死三千万或者大饥荒之说。
3. 毛泽东1975年的担心，或者说1964年的担心，都变成了现实。
4. 毛泽东唯一的遗产就是留给人民的造反精神，终将成燎原之火。
Mao Tse-Tung: Father of Chinese Revolution
By Fox Butterfield
Special to The New York Times
HONG KONG, Sept. 9--Mao Tse-tung, who began as an obscure peasant, died one
of history's great revolutionary figures.
Born at a time when China was wracked by civil strife, beset with terrible
poverty and enc... 阅读全帖 |
|
R****a
发帖数: 6858 | 37 大棋局与9/11
来源: ognc 于 2013-02-22 16:08:44[档案] [博客] [旧帖] [转至博客] [给我悄悄
话] 本文已被阅读：63次
字体：调大/调小/重置 | 加入书签| 打印| 所有跟帖 | 加跟贴| 查看当前最热讨论主题
The Moral Decoding of 9-11
By Prof. John McMurtry
(Journal of 9/11 Studies) - I was sceptical of the 9-11 event from the first
time I saw it on television. It was on every major network within minutes.
All the guilty parties were declared before any evidence was shown. The
first questions of any criminal investigation were erased. Who had the most
compelling motives for... 阅读全帖 |
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 38
If you saw the underground facilities in Beijing, you will understand there
were plans to make Beijing a Stalingrade type of fortress. |
|
a**i
发帖数: 152 | 39 1943年春。Stalingrad,6th Army 剩下的那群猪。 |
|
b********n
发帖数: 38600 | 40 Top 10 movies:
1.
http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0073488/
Oni srazhalis za rodinu (1975)
("They fought for the Motherland") - One of best Soviet military movies,
very many best Soviet famous actors played in this movie. As I remember,
this movie got "Oscar" in USA. Summer of 1942... Remainders of broken
regiment are retreating in Don region. Their regiment lost most part of men,
they fought and retreat very long time but they do not run, they retreat in
order and continue to fight when command order... 阅读全帖 |
|
b********n
发帖数: 38600 | 41 The West, the greatest cause of War in human history, stands stripped of all
Legitimacy
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/08/30/west-greatest-cause-
The West, the greatest cause of War in human history, stands stripped of all
Legitimacy
The Donetsk National Republic States The Facts
“Every time you come to Russia with a sword, from a sword you will perish.
”
The former Russian provinces, which Soviet party leaders carelessly attached
to Ukraine at a time when it seemed to make no difference a... 阅读全帖 |
|
j*****p
发帖数: 24000 | 42 the brest fortress
stalingrad
admiral
都不错 |
|
g******t
发帖数: 18158 | 43 “Chuikov's 62nd Army used blocking detachments in the early stages of the
Stalingrad fighting” ----------Glantz
命令颁布后开始三个月执行比较严格，1942年10月底以后基本停止执行，10月甚至有督
战队官兵加入前线官兵打德国人，这个历史事实在苏联的某一部电影里有过。1944年11
月，督战队直接打逃兵的命令被停止 |
|
m**c
发帖数: 7349 | 44 我理解这段话曼帅认为sixth army不应突围，而应与fouth panzer army回合，通歼苏军
And the whole East front would have been a flipped coin.
他是不是吹牛我就不知道了
: 自己读吧。第一段说的是他没有take over 指挥之前的态势分析， 第二段式他
指挥集
: 团军群后的分析和决定。
: Without going into the details of the first few days of the Soviet
offensive
: , one may safely say that the encirclement of Sixth Army could only
have
: been prevented if the latter had attempted a break-out in the very
early
: stages, either by crossing the Don to the west or by strik... 阅读全帖 |
|
m**c
发帖数: 7349 | 45 This poster says “Long Live the Red Army! Greetings from the British People
”. After Soviet forces recaptured Stalingrad in February 1943, the MOI
organised an evening of celebration at the Royal Albert Hall with readings
from Laurence Olivier and John Gielgud.
The government declared a “Red Army Day”, marked in British cities with
pageants and music. “Joseph Stalin, who had previously been depicted in
British propaganda as a deceitful and conniving dictator, was suddenly
transmogrified into an ... 阅读全帖 |
|
m**c
发帖数: 7349 | 46 The Stalingrad camp was previously cleared in July and September, but
migrants quickly returned and their numbers grew as the Calais camp was
closed.
"I have no idea where we are going. Paris or nearby, it's fine for me. The
important thing for me is to have papers. I've been here for a month in a
tent, it's good to leave," said Khalid, a 28-year-old migrant. |
|
c******g
发帖数: 4889 | 47 如楼上所说，Stalingrad是巴黎一地铁站名，还有Crimée(克里米亚)也是。 |
|
|
w********2
发帖数: 632 | 49 苏德战争的转折点其实不是STALINGRAD，而是KURSK。因为这是苏德最精锐的重坦克部
队的正面交锋。当时德国的虎I，FERDINAND，豹I都出动了。俄国的SU152也出动了。然
后战局结果就定了。 |
|
a*******g
发帖数: 3500 | 50 kursk德国坦克部队损失不大。
希特勒取消这次进攻主要是因为 英美在西西里登陆， 南线意大利有崩溃的危险
: 苏德战争的转折点其实不是STALINGRAD，而是KURSK。因为这是苏德最精锐的重
坦克部
: 队的正面交锋。当时德国的虎I，FERDINAND，豹I都出动了。俄国的SU152也出动
了。然
: 后战局结果就定了。
|
|
