f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 1 CASH GAME和TOURNEY大不一样，呵呵，小对在TOURNEY里面经常威力无穷，关键是看什
么阶段，什么筹码，对谁。
passively玩小对是最差的打法，小对威力如何，对对手read很重要，对位置很重要，
对牌面上有什么机会很重要...
听起来都很“虚”，不过越打越有新的感受，这个纸上谈兵很难说清楚。
没有唯一打法的牌，即使是AA或者27o。 |
|
j**y
发帖数: 7014 | 2 我们也是打tourney打烦了
现在就是cash game
好像最长的一个tourney(9个人?)打了5个多小时
昏死 |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 3 图表的话不用找了，简单的没用(类似有家扑克牌商制造的扑克背面带颜色的图表，什
么牌该扔该根什么的，Card Player上老有广告)，复杂的记不住。扑克不是21点，多少
点该hit，多少点该double down那么相对机械的。
你玩cash还是tourney？差别大了，市面上的一般都是针对tourney的，只有少数专讲
cash的，比如Professional Texas Hold'em (Vol I)。
实在感兴趣借来翻翻就是了，没有必要太认真，看看别人的思路什么的有一定帮助，拿
来当指南一样跟从就麻烦了。道理很简单，以前也有人发过一贴，说其实打牌最怕的就
是你打的不是自己的牌/风格，而是“书上”“别人”“潜规则”该怎么怎么着。扑克
是很实践性的东西，不是打牌，是打具体“人”“对手”。 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 4 no keqi, i'm learning too.
one major diff. between cash game and tourney is for cash game, you want to
play the way you mentioned (choose better starting hands, avoid big
commitment in multi-way action pre-flop, etc..), so actually you play tight
to be safe, or wait until you know your opponents well enough. yet for
tourney (especially for turbo ones), you have to lower your standards
somehow and be more active, yes you don't lose "anything" or "survive" by
not entering a pot, but with time tick |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 5 yeah, they're pretty different.
tourney (no re-buy) may involve more strategies at different blinds levels,
if your or your opponent's tourney life is on the line, lots of interesting
things could happen, hehe, for example, the bubble effect.
that's why many top cash players, like kenny tran (regular game is $1000/
2000NL), only got his first WSOP bracelet recently. tom "durrrr" dwan, who's
a top online cash game pro and wins/loses pots of quarter millions, got
busted on day 1 in the main event |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 6 live cash, ~$1800 for a 5 hr 1/2nl session.
live tourney, haven't tried.
online cash, don't want to try.
online tourney, ~$400 ($26 buy-in). |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 7 i didn't believe it either... and like i said, that's why i stayed away from
online for a long time.
but once you record every tourney/cash game played, get some statistics in
like 2, 3 months with enough numbers, you'll see (i have to say at least i
am convinced).
i have records since the first tourney i played a year ago, now over ~4000 (
maybe 200k hands) games, i comment on bad beats/bad plays, and collect a lot
of weird hands.
looking at them now, i admit i still have some doubts, but very |
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h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 8 I haven't reached the main part yet. But I'm impressed by his record anyway:
So here is some of my stats over the last 629 tourneys. There are an average
of 491 players. My average place is 175. On average i pay 99 dollars an
entry fee. In those tourneys, I have placed in the money 115 times. I have
made the final table 46 times. I have 5 firsts, 4 seconds, and 12 third
places.
He made to final table 40% of the time he's in the money!! |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 9 today, I have kk four times ,and encounter aa every time.(cash game)
pre-flop allin
all of my KK loses , it so sucks
at least 3 times, I guess the other guy has aa, but still pre-flop all in
them,
maybe it is a leak in my game.
but yesterday, i have aa 3 times, encounter kk everytime. (cash game)
I preflop allin them, every time I lose. It is so funny though.
on tourney , have some funny hands though,
1010 vs jk suited
flop 333
turn 3
river king
another tourney,
jj vs 10 7 unsuited in the blind |
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y**t
发帖数: 205 | 10 我觉得那些turbo的tourney就会有这种情况。blind涨的太快，不早点gamble后面也没
活路。你可以试试那些normal的tourney。 |
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p*******r
发帖数: 100 | 11 这是上次有人贴的经验贴作者的数据：
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/how-to-win-at-mtt-poker-t3027.html
So here is some of my stats over the last 629 tourneys. There are an average
of 491 players. My average place is 175. On average i pay 99 dollars an
entry fee. In those tourneys, I have placed in the money 115 times. I have
made the final table 46 times. I have 5 firsts, 4 seconds, and 12 third
places.
115/629=18%, 46/629=7.3%, 12/629=2%, 4/629=0.6%, 5/629=0.8%.
这是pokeryjj的数据，我随便google的一个站点统计的，呵呵：
Wins |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 12 The first prize is so juice.
Much better than those 100$ , 150$ tourney on ftp.
It will be finished in 12 hours, not so bad.
because after 3.5--4 hours, the field will shriek to 1200 ppl.
And blinds are pretty hand, just like another 1200ppl tourney. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 13 KKRUN is right, hard to say.
melonli plays cash games a lot and said he made $22000 last year. melonli
said his friend made $100K last year. KKRUN plays tourneys and made $17000
this month. pokeryjj and ilovepoker make some decent money too.
in general, i guess for 半专业, if you can make 平均一个月 $1K+ (tourney
only), it's pretty good already. not big $$, but you make $$ from fun, :)
the above is just for online, if you play live too, a general good player
makes $20/hr in $1/2 games. |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 14 I do not know.
I may guess if you run hot, you can continue play.
Gus husen won a winning session with 1M+ in 30 hours, cash game.
And those big online tourneies run over 10 hours, you have to play it out. I
watched it the before yesterday, the guy said he drink a lot of energy
drinks. lol.
Even those live tourney final table(9 ppl) may run over 15 hours sometimes.
Some crazy live tourney final table, down to 2 ppl, heads up game, could run
over 6 hours.
Several days ago, I listened radio, some |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 15 that buddy's id is pahrrk
From his stats, I know even play 3.3$ and 6.6$ KO game, you can get 5k+ profit in one month.(almost 1700 such games in a month.)
And you still can learn a lot from those low buyin KO tourneys, but you need play a ton of hands.
In my opinion, those 90ppl or 180ppl tourney is great place to practice FT, final 2 table skills. Since it is very hard for players to go down to final table too often in MTT.
And his buyin goes up quickly, and 2nd month, he can play big buyin tou |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 16 Pretty lucky yesterday, get a 5th on 5$(1 rebuy, 1 addon) tourney.
get a 4th on 26$ 90ppl KO game.
After that, I have energy to focus on this 26$ tourney. |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 17 add during the tourney, since at that time I have only one tourney, enough
time to find out my opponent's weakness. |
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k***n
发帖数: 1682 | 18 I could not find out the starting time for each tourney yet.
My plan is to play one tourney on friday and one on saturday. My wife only
allows me to bring $1000. So if I win some money from cash games, I would
register Sunday $ 1,100 WSOP main event satellite too. haha.. If not, maybe
sunday second chance $230, haha. |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 19 Yes. Omaha 8(tourney) usually is limit game.
Cash game should have a lot of PL game.
Still remember my first O8 tourney(miniftop) 20 days ago. I am folding
folding, folding. Frykings asked me what I am doing, folding to death. lol
I finally squeeze into the money, my first time into money in ftop series
and miniftop series.
My last hand(11BB) is AA2q on the button, raise it, BB calls, flop 3j8
rainbow, ... somehow BB has j3 in his holding, and somehow BB wins it with 2
pair.
haha, not so bad for |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 20 http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/poker-coach-directory
And join your local poker club also, I never do it, but I think it can
enhance your poker skill very quickly.
Those big cash game name: Durrr, Cole, ... live in a house for several
months together, and learn poker games together.
Those young tourney shark: belowabove(win wpt title, 1.2million+, FTOP
Event1 champ, PS 5200$buyin tourney 3rd finisher), AJKhoosier, the Guy who
are ranked 1st on FTP .... rent a house, and live together for 3 mo |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 21 it is a freeroll.
the difference is everyone will go allin each hand.
lol
1st prize is 515bucks |
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h****h
发帖数: 1168 | 22 then die earlier than later. |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 23 At least most of top players(no matter online players or live big cash pros)
in that tournament. It does need a lot of luck to win the tourney, but that
does not garantee you do not need skills there.
It is softer than wcoop(10k buyin tourney) and wsop 5k buyin tourny, and WPT
events.
But that does not mean 90% are donks.
I guess only Moon is amateur on the FT. other buddies are all very strong.
cada plays 25/50 level HU everyday. several guys enters WPT final table this
year. The England truck |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 24 i noticed that, you can handle multi tables AND PLO much better than i can
do, zan!
i play about 3 hours/day, so i'd say 1K hrs/year, then my rough avg. hourly
rate is about $10 (this includes rakeback and bonus, and mixed tourney+cash).
my optimal # of tables is 4, 2 cash games, 2 tourneys (which i can auto
pilot in early stages), more than that, i lose control and get headaches.
as for reading, i don't have large chunks of time to do it, so i read 15-20
mins everyday here and there.
one big th |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 25 he had a few good finishes afterwards, but considering the volume/level of
tourneys he plays now, it's really hard for him to keep up.
all good tourney players are in those games everyday, i won't be surprised
he has -ROI.
as for that final table, it's really a miracle, i remember all top 3
finishers had only small wins (like $XXX or XXXX at most) before that, and
crouts actually was the "best" among them, lol.
and, it's not a small buy-in one at all, it's like $200 or $500 (can't
remember) with |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 26 Observed one turney last night in middle and left the window on.
Find the a big loosee won the tourney. 180 ppl and 10+1 $ buy-in. The guy was
chip leader in middle. 3BB raise from EP with Q7o and call all in re-raise
from
SB, and WON. A few hands like that(lose some of them).
What is surprising is that he won the tourney. WOW, hard to believe. Gonna play PS this weekend. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 27 confidence!
and, don't listen to other guys, they always tease me, lol.
you're a much better tournament player than me, who don't even have a $1K+
score yet. for now, if you feel more comfortable playing tourneys, just
focus on them, don't do things like 但是至少有6000被我扔在了现金局里 for
getting some tiny bonus purpose.
many agree tourney and cash are two different animals anyway.
if you still want to know why...
truth is i used to suck in cash games, i tilted, i lost one buy-in after
another one... i blam |
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T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 28 No. I can't play tourney. Too much time invested for not whole lot coming
out.
I can grind out for 4 hours and finshed 39th place in a 3000 players
tourneys and only win like $28 dollars. It just wastes my time. Plus I am
not that good a touney player.
I play Rush only, for NL200. I deposited $600, earned $600 bonus, so my
investment return is almost 100%. But the peak I reached is around $4600.
Couple days ago I started my bad streak. My roll down to $3500, So I
transferred $2200 out and played |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 29 I am to ban poker at week days. Lost any play(cash or tourney).
No enough energy. Fall sleep in middle during tourney.
Limit to weekend or casual only. |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 30 from my experience. cash game is much much looser than tourney. The reason
is that tourney can not re-load.
, |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 31 3) MTT tourney is a lottory, so you can't expect much from N.
That is arguable. You just used one person's experience to back it up. That
could cripple. One guy won two FTOPs in two weeks(both over 100K, FTOP#12
and FTOP #25-last night). He plays a lot but not huge a lot(2 tourney(
including satellite)/day only, buy in around 50$ each). If it is lottery,
the possiblity is too slim that he hit winners twice in two weeks. |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 32 Holly, that is worse than before. I just found out that the 20+2 for double-
duce is not working for any other 20+2 tourney.
There are many play making $ of this, play micro MTT for tourney $. FTP is
going to lose players on this. |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 33 Does it track the hands lively? When you r playing a tourney, does it track
the hands were just played? Also does it track a special session, say during
this tourney only?!
Find why I cannot play multiple table a same time is that I manually track
and take not and donot have time/energy to do multiple tables. I find one
guy
last night doing MTT-Micro 4/5 tables at the same time. All doing quite well
. I am not any inferior to him in term of playing the cards.
Trying to use EXCEL to track but giv |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 34 Find tons of online pro tourney players when observing FTOPs.
Many have solid and consistent ROI over a couple years. 50+K/year, 500+
tourney/year, avg buy-in >100/50$.
Well this one is one best of thoese. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 35 no, top five from last week (and each weeek's) already got $10K package,
check tourney #154409684.
#154409684 is NOT a real tourney, it's only a pool of all ME race final winners
(see the buy-in is $10K? and not registable?)
ME |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 36 lol
that is why online tourney is profitable.
If you watch high buyin tourney, such as 100$rebuy, everyone is shark.
Almost everyone is very hard to tackle with.
I do not like 77 allin, call with 66 , hmmm. not like it either |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 37 Their 8:00PM's 75k guarantee tourney is losing money also, i have tried a few times already.
I think Fifty-fifty is good tourney though, so easy to get into the money,
when into the money, the blinds are still 400/800. |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 38 It really depends on a lot of stuff. Early Tourney, I will play normal game,
vpip: 15%, pfr: 12%.
Late stage: still depends on table dynamics, if someone 3bet you a lot, I
have to tight up.(vpip: 12%, pfr:12%) If I can run table up, I can loose it
up.(vpip: 70%, pfr:60%).
So, hard to say, usually the lower the buyin, the more likely I can run
table up.
I remember at that tourney I run around vpip:80%, pfr: 80% on the money
bubble. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 39 数了一下screenshots，目前为止114把(含doyles room 2把quads)，cash/tourney合计
(历史总计328把，3年)。
LIVE今年3个不同赌场4把(历史总计11把)。
历史到现在，只2年前在fulltilt一个垃圾tourney中quad Ts输给straight flush唯一
算得上bad beat的标准，可见LIVE里面jackpot的概率程度！！
但是，LIVE被打破的频率实在高得不正常，一年比如AC所有赌场，至少两位数。 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 40 i got about 7K points from playing 2 rush 50NL, 2 hours day, plus some
micro tourneys on the side.
happy hour with double points is good too. they run a few half hour ones for
rush each day, and the routine 11PM-1AM regular hours during weekdays.
but still, for cash game players, using points to get tourney tickets is not
good, it'd hurt your rakeback. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 41 FTP successfully traps me with their ironman system, it is worth about ~$200
/month for me now ($100 mid-year or end-of-year bonus + tourney tickets).
the longer consecutive months i have, the more this value becomes.
sigh, 25 days/month, and this only leaves me at most 6 days not to play in a
month. even for those 6 days, i'd play some tourneys and earn some points
for their one-a-day medals. |
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s*********r
发帖数: 4210 | 42 I see. I need to find a balance between steal/resteal and being tight.
Tourney is fun for me because this is how I started to play poker. At that
time, I was worse with cash game than tourney for a long time. Now, I am
bad at both. MTTs are not good for making money, but still need more
practise for WSOP next year.
part
can
,
of
crazy" |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 43 赞，这么大的坑俺还没有跳过，进去还能爬出来更是不易。
俺这个月看来要虎头蛇尾，月初10K hands，高达13.6BB/100，中间疲软，有两个周末
各下去4 buy-ins，不怨别人怨自己失常，大起大落，4个还是在毛驴拉一把的前提下，
呵呵。月末又起来一点，归根结底还是要吃rakeback的本。
cash (till today): $597.13
tourney (only some micro ones): $71.51
rakeback: $311.51
total = $980.15 + a few tourney tokens.
手
近1 |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 44 That is a small tourney, I squeeze into the money(usually 27ppl get paid for
that tourney, but 36ppl get paid on that day), I get around 11BB after I
enter into the money.
1. After this lucky hand, I get back into shape.
Full Tilt Poker Game #25341787984: $20,000 Guarantee (196173548), Table 14 -
600/1200 Ante 150 - No Limit Hold'em - 04:45:10 ET - 2010/11/07
Seat 1: Rexy73 (28,283)
Seat 2: ryans song (13,268)
Seat 3: Real_Things (73,330)
Seat 4: callmybet1 (12,538)
Seat 5: Dejwu (39,871)
Seat 6... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 45 let's just be honest, everyone goes on tilt here and there.
then the only real difference is how much/often, if we play a large number
of tourneys everyday, then this may not be that big deal at all.
but if we, as recreational players, only play 2 or 3 in a week, get one deep
then busted by such a hand, then it looks like such a "big" deal.
fcf's friend puts in $50K each month as buy-ins to play tourneys, do you
think he makes deep all the time? or he doesn't get "shit" (more accurate
than "bad"... 阅读全帖 |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 46 Not sure yet, maybe just because I run better.
As you know, I do not have so many blinds in tourneys. Once I have it in
cash, I play a super spew way.
I do make a lot of mistakes though. If practice, I can fix those holes, just
my estimation.
Plus, cash game is super nice way to learn poker. In tourney, you do not
have so many options. In cash games, we can fancy play a lot of spots. |
|
s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 47 多谢回复。
我现在玩tournment对timing的感觉特别不好，不太会在不同阶段控制tight/loose
比如前天，我在200多人的rush tourney还剩30个人的时候我还是chip leader
我想说应该打得很LAG，偷点Blind,结果运气不好，被一个只有我1/3 stack的
人Q7s beat了 AQo，后来stack就一直减少，到最后就只拿到第10。所以昨天我stack
一直在5,6位的时候，进FT之前，一直打得小心翼翼。感觉进不进FT收益差别挺大的，
所以很谨慎。。。
另外，除了哈灵顿的老三篇，有其他针对timing的tourney书推荐否？
hold
available
unopened
" |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 48 It will kill fish more quickly.
A lot of regulars will lower their average BUYINs.
Nowadays, I usually do not play those 5$ or 10$ tourneys, however, if they
do introduce multiple entry policys, I will play more of those 10$ tourneys,
supposing I have a huge advantage on 5$, 10$ buyin MTTs.
As you may know, the In To Money ratio in MTT is around 13%. If your edge is
big in one MTT, the ITM ratio could pump to 25%, plus your FT chance, your
top 3 is higher than average players in the field also.... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 49 we tried this before at PS:
1) i didn't have enough points (or play long enough) at PS and we had to ask
someone else to apply for a private tourney;
2) we had 1 tourney there and only 4 or 5 ppl attended, so i have no idea
how many of us here would be able to do it. guys, pls share your ideas. |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 50 I never fold KK in tourney as well. KK VS AA comes every 6k hand in in 9
handed game. For the tourney pay out structure, always wanna get in with KK.
For cash game , it is differnt, I think, especailly you are 150+ BB deep. |
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