p****0
发帖数: 611 | 1 It's my problem. I prejudged villain as weak/tight, so I didn't view this
bet as blocking bet. But when he showed his hand, it makes sense it is a
blocking bet. Or it can be viewed as value bet or induce bet is villain has
a right read on me ( like MM said, I'm a big fish in his list).
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8 |
|
P******y
发帖数: 55 | 2 $330 buy-in MTT Day 1b,30k starting chip,45 min/level.
THis hand happened in level 5, 50/200/400.
UTG+1 with ~20k raised to 1500, one MP called, hero with 70k in MP called
with two red 8s, villains on the button called, others fold.
Flop came 8 4 6 with two diamonds. UTG+1 led out 5k, MP fold, hero raised to
12k, villains shoved all in for 50k total, UTG+1 fold. What would you do
here with top set? |
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m****9
发帖数: 492 | 3 Well if the villain had a solid read, there will be a lot more possible
hands in his range, for example, slow played any flopped set or turned
set. I think lz had a solid live read on villain.
Also my read on the other post is that the other guy is not showing enough
understanding to how lz played. Unfortunately his posts did not show enough
"reasoning" of his understanding. "Based on those info" is not
proper reasoning.
OTR,
they
my |
|
p******a
发帖数: 975 | 4 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 讨论几手牌 Following is the hand-post tips from 2+2, which helps a lot to improve the
quality of the post, plz read.
HAND POSTING TIPS
Just about everything in this section can be observed in every thread that
good, regular posters make - that's not a coincidence! Following these
guidelines is essential to posting a hand that will generate good discussion.
4. Please just include one hand per thread. There are exceptions, such as if
you have a couple hands against the same player or hands that share some
ki... 阅读全帖 |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 5 ------> this is the solid play.
------>you are correct. But villain could bet turn smallish with 88, 99, tt
to control pot, and decide to check back on the river, it is very tough
situation on almost any turn card.
On the river, villain will play perfectly against us no matter what he has.
call
I |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 6 前提条件是，彼此之间信息全无
我的一点看法
1 以你所在的ps 25NL的整个player pool的信息为基础，做决定。比如大牛你前几万手
牌里，包括你involved或者是旁观的3bet pot的％，preflop是不是经常3bet 4bet，整
体的commit pot的hand strength，hand showdown的比例，整体的aggression程度（即
大多数时候，这个级别的game是soft或者是push hard）等等。哥觉得在相对soft的
game environment里，JJ在这里call 3bet oop，以pot control为基础play post flop
问题不大，换言之，marginal。而在非常pushy的game里，postflop会变得异常难打，
大多数情况下ended up猜对手有没有牌，大的variance不可避免。
----------Yes, you are right.
而在非常pushy的game里，postflop会变得异常难打，
大多数情况下ended up猜对手有没有牌，大的variance不可避免。
2 从game... 阅读全帖 |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 7 1. I could bet flop big, 7 dollars pot, I should bet 5 or 5.5 dollars?
2. I should check the turn?
Because villain calls my CB on the flop, the range is AX or flush draw, I
can not get 3 streets of value from AX, it is the time to check turn, or
villain has me smoked, I have to see the free cards.
3. If I do check the turn, with a non-heart flops, I should bet/fold the
river.
Any thoughts? |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 8 File: HH20131105 Hydra #2 - $0.10-$0.25 - USD No Limit Hold'em.txt
PokerStars Zoom Hand #106542319994: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2013/
11/05 7:10:20 ET
Table 'Hydra' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Unlogisch87 ($29.22 in chips)
Seat 2: aecdragon ($25.80 in chips)
Seat 3: Otero700 ($25 in chips)
Seat 4: gjerken ($20.76 in chips)
Seat 5: lookme131908 ($8.75 in chips)
Seat 6: Hustler926 ($39.43 in chips)
aecdragon: posts small blind $0.10
Otero700: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS *... 阅读全帖 |
|
R******p
发帖数: 35 | 9 I still believe check min raising in ring game is usually very very strong.
I have heard this from a lot of training videos, and it has been proved by
my own experience. It's like limp reraise in live poker.
About the 4bet sizing, I think playing deep is a big concern here. Even we
are in position I still like a much larger size, because position is not
that important in a 4 bet pot.
1. I think if you 4 bet larger, you have a bigger chance to stake off QQ on
a J high flop, considering not many p... 阅读全帖 |
|
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p******a
发帖数: 975 | 11 I don't like your bet size.
Turn bet gives villain good odds to draw. River bet gives villain chance to
min-raise bluff.
As played, river call/fold seems to be same. |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 12 What is your turn betting size?
(I am considerring bet/fold here, because I think my hands get marginal on
the turn. That is the main reason I bet small.)
(If you bet big on the turn, and get called, what is your plan on the river?)
What is your river betting size?
(My hand is still very weak there, and I hesitate between betting and
checking there. Therefore, if I bet, I will small. On the flip side, I need
consider villain's hand strengh. If I bet big, what is villain's calling
range?)
to |
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p******a
发帖数: 975 | 13 If I were playing this hand, I will overbet turn and fold to a raise. If get
called ,depending on villain's style, check call river as a bluff catcher
or bet 1/2 to 2/3 pot -fold are both legit. This line maximize your EV if
you read villain well.
Safe play is bet 2/3 pot on the turn, bet 2/3 on the river. Fold if get
raised. |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 14 Yeah. If I can replay this hand, I will see a flop.
In game, I thought that
1. I raise UTG, villain's line should be super strong or have decent equity
against me.
2. Maybe I could make big mistake postflop.
3. I do not lose much to fold here.
4.Even I call, I maybe lose more money in the long run.
5. I do not have information on how villain play postflop.
I choose to muck my hands.
But considerring if I move up, I muck AQs, then I will get crushed. I think
it is fine to see flop and play from t... 阅读全帖 |
|
|
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 16 大家来说说见过的最奇怪的牌吧. 我先抛砖引玉.
1. Bovada上目前1万多手里最surprise的一把. 100nl, 我是 totally bluff with K
high air, bet preflop, check raise flop, bet turn, bet all in on river and
get called. 我直接就去看另一桌了,肯定是被人抓了bluff. 没想到啊,发现居然自己
double up了. Villain called with Q high air all the way. 如果我是J high,估
计就会忍不住想这家伙难道能看到我的牌. 后来和他又玩了一会儿,觉得还是很decent
的player, 不知道为什么就那么crazy了一把.
2. 有史以来最surprise的是曾经在Carbon的一手. Villain called my all in on
flop with air, no pair, no draw, no high card. 然后呢, runner runner
straight了. 赢了就跑了. 这个我怎么... 阅读全帖 |
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p****0
发帖数: 611 | 17 1/2 NL. Hero at SB has stack of 400ish, Villain at BTN has stack 300ish.
Villain is a thinking player, only read is he took couple pots by shoving on
the river and force opponent folding hand, shoving once w/ pair and flush
draw. Hero's image is solid, able to make move. OK here is the hand.
Hero was dealt black JJ. Limping pot. BTN raised to 15 PF. Hero called.
Heads up. Flop 765r. Hero check, BTN led out 25. Hero snap call. Turn 3,
hero tanked a little and led out 50. BTN tank and pushed all ... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 18 我utg limp，villain btn raise，BB 3bet shove，如果我4bet here，就把villain绝
大多数烂牌都赶走了。。。他虽然凶，但是不傻，你懂的
这种情况下，他如果再5bet shove，我就真接不住了，基本上落后他的range了。 |
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p****0
发帖数: 611 | 19 Agree, this pot might not be a good one for 55 play like that. I played bad
, and made my crying call on the river, knowing that the only hand I can
beat is bluffing. And luckly, Villain said he had nothing. And my 55 hold up
.
I'm not tryinig to defend I made a right play. I wanted to point out,
sometimes, our pair is as good as other stong hand.
Think about in this way, if you are the Villain and had nothing and decided
to purely play position, how would you play out this hand?
usually |
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p****0
发帖数: 611 | 20 刚刚打完一个session。 整个session 大约5个小时。 前面4个半小时都还比较稳。 最
后决定收工走人。 清点chip， up 600. 还剩$2零头。 谨记前版大名言，tip占的
hourely rate 很大一部分，于是不想给dealer当tip，打算玩最后一把。
UTG, dealt Ad4d, limped in. BTN raised to 15, hero and MP (LAG style)
called. Flop A52r. Not a bad flop. All check. Turn 5, hero led out 25.
MP raised to 70, BTN fold, hero called (反正不知道稀里糊涂就call了，好歹最后
一把，MP或许只有Ax，权且我还有river hit到3的可能）。 River 3， MP shove with
200. 既然hit到3了，那就call 吧。 结果对手亮出25. 一下子300没了。
嗯， 马上就BTN了，再打两手吧。 结果在BTN位子拿到22. 前面的LAG guy raised ... 阅读全帖 |
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p****0
发帖数: 611 | 21 As played, hand 1, hero shove, villain folded his top two pairs，Hand 2,
hero shove，villain called with set of 2.
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8 |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 22
虽然flush draw busted，但是牌面已经成了4 cards straight，在这种情况下类似
2pairs/sets的牌，瞬间downgrade到way ahead way behind。
ABC情况下，out of position，拿着小于straight的大牌可以进行size稍小一些的
blocking bet来discourage部分%对手狗急跳墙的行为。但是这个bet，普遍意义上是没
有很大的利润存在，因为基本上比你小的牌都fold了，能call或者raise的都是比你大
（除了你read到对手可能会用比你小的大牌来抓你“bluff”，那这里算是个thin
value bet，size based on对手不愿意fold的程度）。
而villain果真river hit到straight，并且对手只能以over play或者bluff catch为目
的来call你的这个bet，那你bet个1/2和2/3甚至是pot size，没多大区别。
所以，这手牌villain打得是很恰当的，既discourge了bluff又可能挤出点thin value
。但是问题在... 阅读全帖 |
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s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 23 My 2c, assuming no particular tell about this villain
1. Overall, it looks like the way u play is trying to induce bluff with KK
on A high board.
2. Calling flop cbet is understandable. It seems to me calling turn means
committed, considering the bet size and the stack. I would either fold or
shove there.
or
Villain
to
two |
|
p****0
发帖数: 611 | 24 嗯，这个 blocking bet 不错，我喜欢。
再延伸一下，如果你是villain （normal reg)
case 1: turn full house or flop straight,
1.1: 面对未知对手，会采取什么样的line最好？
1.2: 面对normal reg，会采取什么样的line最好？
1.3：面对fish，会采取什么样的line最好？
1.4：面对level 1+ normal reg, 会采取什么样的line最好？
case 2: busted draw
2.1: 面对未知对手，会采取什么样的line最好？
2.2: 面对normal reg，会采取什么样的line最好？
2.3：面对fish，会采取什么样的line最好？
2.4：面对level 1+ normal reg, 会采取什么样的line最好？
当然，case 2 you can fold for all scenarios.
以上两种cases，Villain 又可分为
A:normal reg (上面列出）... 阅读全帖 |
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p****0
发帖数: 611 | 25 赞仔细分析。
其实这手牌Villain is me. I had 86s with busted draw. Was trying to play
aggressively at the early stage. I took those lines, trying to play like I
had a nut or str8. But villain snap called my all in on the rive. And he
said, it's snap call, man. I can only say, what a fish :-) One of the reg
later told me that guy was busted out soon since he played any two style.
在没有对手信息的情况下，还是play ABC才是王道啊。 Lesson learned again. |
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n***a
发帖数: 274 | 26 Bottom set 有时候是很纠结，毕竟是the bottom of a very strong range
问题是”其余的makesense的可以push back的牌“好像没有啥乐？
这把牌结果相当无聊hero call, villain 是nfd最后没中。
不知道是不是想多了，认为这tight image villain一般不会把fd打的这么奔放。
D肾那把fold赞一个 |
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n***a
发帖数: 274 | 27 对，Louisiana horseshoe,lag is decent, not "good".
AJo 一般确实不是好的3bet hand, 但对于一个pfr 40的villain 还是大幅领先的吧
这把牌hero fold, villain didn't show |
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p****0
发帖数: 611 | 28 什么bluff line 合适呢？
float to river, villain check, I raise, villain bet I raise?
Raise on the flop and led out all the way to river?
各有利弊。1/2 table, against top pair, over pair, 我是不打算bluff了，成牌就
猛上， 什么line 都行， 呵呵。
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8 |
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p******a
发帖数: 975 | 29 The mental game is probably like this (correct me if I was wrong)
Hero: dry board, villain most likely has nothing
Villain: dry board, if he has anything, he will just call, if he has a
weak over pair, I have 6 outs, and fold Equity
Hero: If he has anything, he will just call...
so on so forth
I personally don't like this play even with some reading. A player that is
one level lower or higher than me may just shove small over pair or even AK,
AQ. I am not sure if I will have enough EV. |
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A*******e
发帖数: 4024 | 30 If I am the villain, I will just call your check raise and see what happens
next. I won't four bet you because
1. I am trying to control the pot.
2. I call to tell you I have something, maybe strong enough to trap you,
maybe not.
3. Out-of-position bluff is always tough, you don't know whether villain's
check is being scared or just check to control the pot. 50/50 chance. |
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s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 31 I don't have a ton of history of villain. Only half an hour on that table.
If you are the Villain, what would you call with considering such an
attractive odds?
16 |
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n***a
发帖数: 274 | 32 If u differ hand strength with bet size, then it is very exploitable to
observant villains.
对于这手牌我想说的是，villain(s) might choose to flat with weak drawing hand
, givin such good pot odds, without making a mistake.
All face card otr might make a better 2p, and all other none pairing card
might make a straight or flush. If an a or 8 don't fall otr, hero will have
a very difficult decision facing a large bet. |
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s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 33 It depends on villain. If I know he is going to shove with a wide range, of
coz I am not going to raise him. In this situation, if I raise, a lot of
ABC villains will take one of the three lines.
1. with TPTK+, shove. I can fold without risking more at turn.
2. with second pair or less, fold. I win the pot right away.
3. with draw or like maybe TPGK, call. I can keep pushing him to fold at
turn or river.
he |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 34 昨online regular 215 buyin，5个小时的憋仙战术，好不容易深筹打进钱圈。跟一哥
们儿在btn vs blind的情况下，直接进去了30bb，又是min cash，尼玛，再这样下去，
br要见底了。
hero with tag image （17/15 no 4bet
Villain kinda tag，3bet 8% and fold to donkie 4bet shove 20bb couple of
times at big blind （3x 3bet = weak， 2x 3bet = strong）
哥的排名5/20
here comes the last hand，
both 30bb or so stack
preflop
fold to hero，2.3x open at btn with A9o
sb fold，bb 3bet to 7bb
hero 4bet to 14bb， bb shove 30bb， hero call
bb shows 63o and hit 2 pairs。。。
这把如果赢了哥就是CL了。。。
why the fac... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 35 纯abc来讲，4bet shove，range非常高大上了，烂牌进不来
abc + 1 level，4bet shove，含有相当一部分bluffing range，以及一些medium
strong hand like AQ/AK，加上bvb的situation，导致那些3bet的medium pair可能会
crying call进来。而small 4bet，变相套池反而rep更窄的range，让原本可以crying
call的牌变得非常tough。当然，如果在这里被flat 4bet的话，villain的牌简直是屌
炸天了。相反，如果villain 5bet 反推回来，他的range跟3bet时候的range，应该差
不了多少。（当然这是我自己目前的理解）
我把对手定在abc+1的level，结果对手貌似是abc或者是abc+2，虽然show down是我想
看到的比较好的结果。当然结果的结果，让自以为内心强大的哥，还是心里有点小芥蒂。 |
|
p****0
发帖数: 611 | 36 Hero had stack of 200ish at UTG. Aggressive style. Steal pots often.
Villain 1 had stack of 500ish at UTG+1. He is a week guy. Saw him raise PF
with AK twice. Folded 99 PF one time facing my push of 130ish with 66
against BTN's shove of 100ish. That hand flopped 996. And the 4th 6 didn't
come out. If did, I would be pissed off by missing the bad beat.
Villain 2 is a middle age guy, normal player with mixed play some time. He
had stack of 300ish at BTN.
Hero straddle and waked up with 54... 阅读全帖 |
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s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 37 那看来是没办法了,NL1000还是太高大上了,吊丝没法操作,连试都试不了.
你觉得从NL200到600区别大么? 我觉得NL100到200还是很有区别的,villain们的
thinking level明显更高. 从NL200往上到NL1000,真正的肥鱼少了,但会玩的villain们
好象差不太多,我唯一感觉到的是preflop late position and blinds, 3-5bet 更凶了. |
|
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 38 1. 我也觉得不可能会fold QQ on flop, 除了是deep stack, 这就和另外那个AA贴里的
情况相似了. 假如call了flop, turn and river no flush no A no K, villain bets
2/3 pot each street, would you call him down? How about connecting cards
that could make a straight? For deep stack, would you consider reraise/fold
on flop with QQ in this case?
2. 我turn只bet 1/2 pot有两个原因. 一个是villain之前给我的印象是比较
aggressive,我bet 少一点,希望他能够check raise我. 第二个是我希望他如果是TP之
类的,他会call turn and one more time on blank river.
3. River我bet少是考虑到pot and stack size, 我是准备bet/f... 阅读全帖 |
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s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 39 1000NL, Hero and Villain have >300bb stack each.
Board 8h5h5d8s7s
Hero has As8d. Villain shove when Hero check raise river.
我还想，真可惜，ticker用不上了，只能分钱了。 尼玛，他居然是55. |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 40 类似经历 只是结果不同
。。。
villain bet out 60bb,with 80bb left. Hero tank, and announced all in.
Villain SNAP call and show the nuts
hero quickly mucked and fled
@_@ |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 41
.
betting
欢迎印度兄弟回归，其实AQ在那里shove，是turn a value hand into bluff，并不是
真的落在相对靠谱的villain的range里
直白点讲，villain river的over shove就是highly polarized，not even likely
including straight。 |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 42
所以说MM老湿的风格和这个villain是一路的，一般正常reg对正常reg，over bet这条
line是很少出现的，一旦出现 over bet shove，对不起，百分之八九十都是real
monster。
但是哥那天实在是好奇，或者说没太在意这桌（正看着视频），怎么想都觉得不make
sense，所以也没太犹豫，call了
villain showed quads T
又一次交待了600刀给他 |
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 43 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 看看这手牌 I suppose this is still at the relative early stage of the tournament when
most players have over 30 BB?
I think the real question is why you check the turn and when you decide to
check the turn, do you have your plan ready for the river. It seems like you
are trying to induce a bluff on the river by checking behind on the turn
and if that's the case, you got what you want. So perhaps you are asking
whether or not you should be raising here and how much if you indeed want to
raise. I would perso... 阅读全帖 |
|
h******g
发帖数: 100 | 44 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 看看这手牌 I suppose this is still at the relative early stage of the tournament when
most players have over 30 BB?
I think the real question is why you check the turn and when you decide to
check the turn, do you have your plan ready for the river. It seems like you
are trying to induce a bluff on the river by checking behind on the turn
and if that's the case, you got what you want. So perhaps you are asking
whether or not you should be raising here and how much if you indeed want to
raise. I would perso... 阅读全帖 |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 45 hand 1, I snap called as planned,
villain showed KJo, I got busted
可能是网上无脑打T的习惯，造成了这里我没有多想，通常在网上，25bb的筹码，with
tptk 卡顺，我99% commit on wet flop。
实际上，在300到400买入这个级别的live T里，很多玩家，还是觉得20到30bb是很多，
且较健康的筹码量，相应的虽然可能flat的range比较松，但是commit的牌力还是相当
高的，所以这里正像上面几位大牛所说的，我回头想想，这里的决定还是有待商榷的。
hand 2，river 2d，villain showed AdJd, 我lost了一个2k的pot，哭着回家了 |
|
T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 46 跟 villain 以前只同桌过一次，应该是一个 average tight 的 player。只有两副牌
有印象，一副是他拿了 quads，一路 check call，把一个 aggro 给 stack 了，属于
monster 的标准打法。另一副牌他 heavy bet a Q J 9 flop ，然后 fold to 400
raise，他摊出来 AA，人家 show 34s。
这次同桌，看了他几首牌：
1. 他 call 3 bet 很 loose，几乎大多数情况都会 call
2. 打法有些 tricky，而且一个很大的特点是喜欢 OOP bet into raiser。 因为几乎
没有 showdown，所以我不知道他 bet into raiser 的牌力如何。只好根据我以前经验
，即 bet into raiser 的牌力一般都是中等偏下，monster 的可能性比较低。
3. 有 bluff，看到他一副牌 river bluff 200 on missed draw，给人抓了。
在这之前刚跟他打了一副牌，7 8 T x T 的 board，我 A 7 nut flus... 阅读全帖 |
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l*******r
发帖数: 328 | 47 don't tell me that villain got 47 this time. if so, not much you can do.
villain |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 48 话说回来 个人感觉 在不是那么狂野的game里，深筹码 AA flat 4bet比5bet回去要有
更多利润
加上villain的言语迷惑 导致hero整个400bb兜了进去
villain打得perfect
对于楼主，我的建议是，相信自己的read固然是对的，但是有时候要考虑多重因素，尤
其是在筹码很深的情况下，要有个控池的概念，多大的牌力打多大的池，避免overplay
的状况频繁出现。 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 49 话说回来 个人感觉 在不是那么狂野的game里，深筹码 AA flat 4bet比5bet回去要有
更多利润
加上villain的言语迷惑 导致hero整个400bb兜了进去
villain打得perfect
对于楼主，我的建议是，相信自己的read固然是对的，但是有时候要考虑多重因素，尤
其是在筹码很深的情况下，要有个控池的概念，多大的牌力打多大的池，避免overplay
的状况频繁出现。 |
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w**********y
发帖数: 1691 | 50 Hero is regular and solid. Has been running hot for last couple of hands,
preflop raising 15-25 and cbetting to take down without showing. Two
villains are typical LAG player and look like living by playing poker.
Reasonable 3bet frequency. All have 1200+ chips.
Hero at UTG with 9h9s bets 20
Two villains call, others fold
Flop is 9dTd5s hero bets 35. Both call.
Turn is Qd. Hero bets 100. Both call.
River is nothing. Hero tanks and checks. Villain1 checks. Villains2 bets
225.
请教一下我哪里打的有leak. 我的... 阅读全帖 |
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