w**k
发帖数: 1455 | 1 不要和党的贴心小棉袄辩论了，这种人对袁腾飞吹毛求次，鸡蛋里挑骨头，但是对党的
教科书上信口雌皇，避重就轻，歪曲事实却认为还是基本客观公正 |
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W*********7
发帖数: 426 | 2 RE~
将人做阶级划分, 强调阶级斗争, 以"革命"暴力结决矛盾, 套搬达尔文的生物进化学说
建立社会达尔文主义, 一边倒地强调社会的演进论, 这就是唯物史观. 唯物主义和唯物
史观, 只是人类迄今为止形成的哲学政治学社会学的观点和理论之一. 人类现今的科学
知识根本还无法解释大多数的现象, 当然我们的唯物主义者总相信人定胜天, 永远都不
承认人的渺小和有限, 对自然毫无尊重和敬畏, 绝无悔意, 这也是我们的社会会无法无
天的原因吧.
把一种理论和观点作为终极和永恒真理来信奉和宣传, 要求人民也相信历史就是这样演
进的, 更不顾各国国情在现实中生搬硬套甚至无中生有, 以阶级划分和阶级斗争将人分
成三六九等来进行严酷非人的迫害, 滥杀无辜草菅人命, 这就是我们49-78这三十年的
历史, 而余威至今阴魂不散, 最近几年甚至有死灰复燃之势. |
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q*d
发帖数: 22178 | 3 认错是有的,但是没触及根本,
比如文革的责任都推到江青一伙的头上--这显然不能服众.
文革这样的错误没有进行彻底的清算和反思,
导致今日毛轮横行,竟然为文革叫好的
doing |
|
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w**k
发帖数: 1455 | 5 文革都是江清，林彪欺骗毛泽东同志么，
还老是声称反右是对的，只不过是扩大化了，和日本人称南京大屠杀是战争期间的正常行为一样
老毛这种祸国殃民的货色，至今党还把他的死尸贡奉起来 |
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q*d
发帖数: 22178 | 6 资产阶级思想启蒙的时候,卢梭的观点也很激进.
许多反袁的都抓住一些细枝末节的错误,无限放大--这才是典型的中国古代文人的思维.
却不敢面对袁所传播的基本精神基本正确.
"
If |
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R***a
发帖数: 41892 | 7 反右这事得怪286。因为就是他主持的。
所以到现在也不敢说反右是错的。非得留几个不平反来证明当初是正确的。
要是换成林彪江青集团的人搞的，早就全部平反了
常行为一样 |
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|
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q*d
发帖数: 22178 | 10 其实这个事邓的时代不能彻底清算,有他的理由,
因为这可能引发国家和社会的混乱和不稳定.
这都好几十年了,事实就是事实,历史就是历史,
让全国人民面对一部充满谎言的历史--这本身就是不道德的 |
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q*d
发帖数: 22178 | 12 至少袁站在那讲台上那么说是需要勇气的.
骂袁的,没有任何危险.
..
needs
维. |
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h*****r
发帖数: 143 | 13 对当权者文过饰非, 对普通人求全责备, 恐怕才是典型的中国某些古代文人的思维吧.
..
needs
维. |
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d****h
发帖数: 4291 | 14 就算今天抹杀了一个袁腾飞
改天还会有马腾飞
牛腾飞
........
土共歪曲历史，串改教科书，屠杀国民，搞内斗，扶持邪恶.........
这些历史面目总会浮出水面的
蒙住了现在的小孩，蒙不住未来的成人
屁用没有 |
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q******j
发帖数: 577 | 15 Yes, 勇气可嘉 but still got it wrong. China is not lack of 愤青, even those
有勇气的愤青 like Yuan. China needs a huge middleclass that is willing to
act reasonably, willing to objectively balance pros and prons, and willing
to compromise. 斗争哲学, 非黑即白, 妖魔化神化 are the enemies of China's
democracy process.
Young teachers like Yuan are the nation's hope to train the next generation
how to think and act differently. Unfortunately, they are still passing on
非黑即白 in their daily teaching.
发信人: qed (鸟瞰红尘), 信区: C |
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m*d
发帖数: 7658 | 16 反右运动是毛跟刘邓一起执行的，
邓不可能否定自己
常行为一样 |
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d***n
发帖数: 902 | 17 YTF讲反右最有意思，55万人到现在还有5人未平反，反右没错，就是扩大化了11万倍而
已，呵呵 |
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h*****r
发帖数: 143 | 18 其实,那些貌似惊人的言论， 很多只是常识而已。 如果常识普及了， 这样的言论又有
什么值得大惊小怪的呢？ 这个神奇的国度， 谎言欺骗没人惊怪。 说点常识反而惊诧
莫名， 何也？
其实，中国的小孩的确很可怜， 小时候被逼着学些谎言。 讽刺的是，又要大力提倡诚
信。 你这不是要别人人格分裂么？
学点别的观点，用另一个视角看事物， 没什么不好。 免得坐井观天，无知无畏。 比
如， 被中共大力褒扬的巴黎公社，其实在西方世界评价不高。 是属于一场革命理念不
清楚，充满血腥暴力的无政府暴动。这种充满争议的话题，本来少说为妙。 可是， 曾
有个官员， 跑到巴黎在一个欢迎宴会上 谈什么巴黎人民有光荣的革命传统， 巴黎公
社如何如何。。。 还以为在拍巴黎人民的马屁， 怎知拍到了马蹄上面。
needs |
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U*****e
发帖数: 2882 | 19 有人说要走一大步，结果半天没动静。
有人终于走了一小步，立马被人倒了一头凉水，吐了一身吐沫。
看不出这种酱缸文化能培养出你说的那种人。
those
to
willing
generation
passing on |
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w**k
发帖数: 1455 | 20 你最好把因果搞清楚
如果不是党搞一言堂，搞一党专政，搞的教科书谎话连篇，别人能如此反感么? 政府信
誉能如此之低么?
很奇怪啊，你老要别人要balance，要compromise，可是党允许compromise么? 党允许
balance么? 党允许自由讨论党犯的严重错误么? 党允许别人编教科书么?
those
to
generation
on |
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q******j
发帖数: 577 | 21 Don't assume Yuan's step is in the right direction.
Don't assume there aren't any better way to step out that first step.
Teaching students to think through historical events, analyze what went
wrong, what did great, and try to give an objective evaluation to historical
characters may not be that easy as it sounds like but it is definitely
history teacher's responsibility.
Yuan is good at telling stories which most students like to hear. His class
is not boring. That is the first and the mos |
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l*****8
发帖数: 16949 | 22 TG和他的走狗们倒打一耙的本领不小啊。明明自己是愤青，厚着脸皮把帽子扣人家头上
去了。
我觉得袁对愤青的归纳很到位：网络义和团,一无知,二爱国,三轻生。 |
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d***n
发帖数: 902 | 23 有些五毛逼无耻到家，硬是敢给老将们扣五毛的帽子 |
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W*********7
发帖数: 426 | 24 "Still got it wrong, 斗争哲学, 非黑即白, 妖魔化神化", 这是你的观点, 别人认为
是纠错和恢复一些历史的真实. 别人有别人的观点, 你有你的观点, 那么求同存异怎么
样? 和你观点相左的就一定错了? 再说下去就有点让我想起那个在军事版和三蕃版, 针
对波兰总统坠机一事, 对波兰和波兰人说个没完的强迫症MM了.
BTW, 斗争哲学, 非黑即白, 妖魔化神化, 这是老毛的一贯作风和方法吧, 怎么指出他
曾犯下的大错, 就成非黑即白了呢? 你的思维, 五毛可以借鉴.
those
to
generation
on |
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w**k
发帖数: 1455 | 25 You are just assuming that what is online is all that he teaches in class.
I doubt that you watched all of his videos online.
But you seem to have no difficulty in concluding he never encourages his
students to think or analyze, just based upon a few snippets of his lectures?
historical
class |
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q******j
发帖数: 577 | 26 Most of his 言论不值得大惊小怪. Those are just some 佐料 to make his class
more interesting. But some of his 言论 went too far. At the most they
could be called 仁者见仁, but definitely not 常识. When touching the
contraversial issues, the better way to teach is to give both sides of the
fact and let the students to reach their own conclusions.
"这种充满争议的话题，本来少说为妙。" Are you suggesting Yuan better shut up
on the contraversial issues?
By the way, even without knowing 西方世界对巴黎公社评价不高, that official
should not cite 巴黎 |
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W*********7
发帖数: 426 | 27 "But some of his 言论 went too far", 但这里很多人认为没有went too far, 而是
说到点上了, 说到DIANG和毛的痛处了, 怎么办? 这就是观点的不同, 不值得大惊小怪
class
up |
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w**k
发帖数: 1455 | 28 文革，反右，大跃进有什么controversial? 难道还要部分肯定? 还有功了?
class
up |
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q*d
发帖数: 22178 | 29 正确还是错误,不是哪一个人说了算的.
those
to
generation
on
牛 |
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w**k
发帖数: 1455 | 30 认为什么事情都要一分为二才是搅浑水呢，这世界上有些事情不是都有好坏两面的，比
如反右，完全就是因言获罪，因为发表不同意见，被迫害，甚至到肉体消灭的地步，但
有人非要说这种事情也有好的一面 |
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U*****e
发帖数: 2882 | 31 有什么人迈第一步的时候能被所有人认为方向是正确的？超人？
你觉得你的方向更高明，那就做出点名堂再说吧。到那时，你再留意那些好为人师的旁
观者，岂不是
另一种境界？
went
historical
definitely
class
him
inspired |
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q******j
发帖数: 577 | 32 After TG is gone, how can the same not-willing-to-compromise people do a
better job?
BTW, don't distinguish TG and people that distinctively. TG has tens of
millions of members. TG officials' quality is directly determined by the so
called "people." Don't imagine after TG is gone, the same so-called "
people" would suddenly know how to act reasonably if they normally fight to
death ideologically. On the other hand, if the young generation knows how
to respect the other and act practically, |
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w**k
发帖数: 1455 | 33 他对袁总是要以最高标准要求，什么都要balance，可是这世界上有这样的人么? 没见
他要求党的教科书也要balance，不要full of lies，他竟然认为党的教科书基本fair
只有言论自由，允许人们自由发表意见，才能达到真正的balance，自己搞一言堂，然
后要求别人都要balance只有被鄙视嘲笑的份了 |
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W*********7
发帖数: 426 | 34 RE, 我刚才还想这么说来着.
很多还是85后男生女生, 离那个时代很遥远, 从中学的历史教学模式中获益匪浅, 并且
总希望从一大堆错误中试图找点什么, 以证明自己的国家和老毛在那个年代所做的事不
完全是荒谬的, 有时觉得他们为某些政府和个人的所做所为找合理性合法性的急切感比
真理部都强烈. |
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w**k
发帖数: 1455 | 35 sorry, but TG never learns lessons from the history. If you continue to be
uncompromising, in the end there won't be anything left for both sides to
compromise on.
so
to
forward |
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W*********7
发帖数: 426 | 36 这段才是全部的真心话. 谎言说了一千遍, 在你那儿真成了真理.
大家洗洗睡吧.
GOOD NIGHT.
so
to
forward |
|
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w**k
发帖数: 1455 | 38 There is nothing wrong with what Bush said. On the issue of terrorism,
compromise is impossible. There is no middle ground between terrorists and
civilized societies
US
are |
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q******j
发帖数: 577 | 39 I certainly did not watch all Yuan's videos (I do not even know how to
quantify "all" since he is alive and post more videos online). But from
what I have seen, he is basically 说教 and 灌输. He just made his classes
more interesting by adding more 口语化的 historical stories. After all, he
is teaching high school classes to prepare 高考. I don't want to ask him
for too much. At least, he is still much better than a lot teachers who can
only read what is in the text books. But the point is, do not pr |
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w**k
发帖数: 1455 | 40 在有些根本问题上能不能明辨是非是考验一个人道德的底线，如果认为大跃进为了赶英
超美饿死上千万人还有可取之处，那只用不明是非恐怕很难解释 |
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q******j
发帖数: 577 | 41 To give Mao an objectively evaluation is controversial. He made a lot of
mistakes but he also did a lot of great things. Qingshihuang is also a
contraversial firgure. Demonize Mao or holifing Mao are both wrong. As LZ
acknowledged, Yuan seemed to only emphasize the negative side of Mao while
neglecting his postive side. For adults who have broader experiences and
deeper understanding of the whole picture, that is not a big issue. But for
high school kids, a serious responsible teacher who |
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h*****r
发帖数: 143 | 42 Adolf Hitler did something good for German people as well. Maybe you think
everything
is controversial.
LZ
for
picture |
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d******e
发帖数: 7844 | 43 网络愤青不过是新时代的红卫兵罢了。
我党现在应当巴不得网络上全是愤青呢，转移注意力啊。 |
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q******j
发帖数: 577 | 44 I am not saying we should 各打五十大板 for everything. For individual event
and individual character, we all need to do thourough analysis. But that
is not to say, we should 非黑即白.
No matter 反右 like what TG did in the 50's or 反左 like what McCarthy did
in the roughly same period, such ideological movements are definitely wrong
and inhuman. Freedom of speech should be promoted and not compressed. TG
made some progress in the right direction after the Culture Revolution but
still has a long way to cat |
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e*n
发帖数: 1511 | 45 需要先把人民叫醒。然后再对历史进行仔细分析。
event
wrong
even |
|
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q******j
发帖数: 577 | 47 I don't think my ask is a high standard for Yuan. BTW, it is those Yuan
fans who claim he is THE MOST NIU teacher. I just used an average teacher
standard to ask him to give a balanced view of histry to his students. If
he omits something important, is he doing in the SAME way as TG is doing?
Then why appraise him so much? Only because he is saying a different view?
Additionally, I still believe individuals by making changes to their own
hehaviors can contribute to a bigger change in the so |
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q******j
发帖数: 577 | 48 Compromise is not impossible, even in terms of terrorism. In reality, the
US made a lot of compromises with terrorists, some are out of their own will
, some are forced. They tolerate some terrorists (such as those against
the other countries). They paid ramsom to get hostages back. Obama is
pushing Israel (and actually some articles say the majority of Israelies
want) to negotiate with Hamas.
One of Marxism's mistakes is that he thought the tension and conflict
between the working class an |
|
q******j
发帖数: 577 | 49 I know you are gonna use this.
Let us put it in this way, for any historical event or character (no matter
how "contraversial" or "not contraversial" such event or character is), a
history teacher should do his best to tell his students the whole picture.
Yes, Hitler might indeed have done something good for German people. Just
tell the students and let them figure out what kind a person he is and what
kind of historical effect he made to human's history.
发信人: higator (gator), 信区: ChinaNews
标 |
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q******j
发帖数: 577 | 50 Okay, everyone. Thanks for giving me this opportunity to express my
opinions. Have a good night. |
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