W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 1 I had the a hand live last time. Where I think I had the worst sequence
of event.
1$/2$ live.
Co raise 12X fairly loose raiser preflop. button call. I am at bb with
pocket Qs. i 3 bet to 40$. co fold button all in 120$ total.. I had no
choice and called. button have pocket As.
I think this is exactly opposite of what happened to fcf's folded KK. If co
didn't raise so big pre with marginal hand. button's stack is a little
deeper. button actually raise instead of wanting more people in the pot ( |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 2 fcf has 300+ BB, way too deep to commit KK in such situations, and i believe
he plays very profitable in other better spots.
co |
|
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 4 投票已经结束，5人选择Ballys, 2人Borgata，以少数服从多数原则，拟订在Ballys，2
个房间。如果fcf老大和另一位想自行订Borgata的话，请速告知。
时间问题，上次sssh提到他12/4那个周末有考试，某疯妹妹也有意换到12/11那个周末
，好像没有其他人强烈反对，如果是这样，大家请跟贴确认12/11更好。疯妹妹不提也
罢，不熟悉sssh的俺简介一下，这是牌坛元老之一，也是本版，以前还是私人俱乐部时
的常客，技术高超，是AC caesars, borgata的高级会员。如果本次大家能有机会聚上
的话，将是本版和谐盛世。
因为还涉及比如goes等人订机票的复杂问题，请大家迅速回复意向，争取下周末之前敲
定，谢谢。
此外，按原定计划，确认要来的，请transfer $20至俺的full tilt账号(fryking2)下
作为押金，最后多退少补。押金只是个形式，督促大家早做时间/生活安排，pot
committed。
小消息，对WSOP有兴趣的同学，Dec. 4-22, 2010，在Harrah's Atlantic City将有一
系列外围赛和地区决赛(这是今年新推 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 5 yjj, 30stand, KKRUN and fcf we chat once in a while on MSN, mine is fryking2
@live.com.
em |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 6 don't worry, buddy, drive safely though, long way.
contact lundon and fcf, and see carpool possibility, at least you'll get
some rest. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 7 guys, we still need YOUR response!
so far, i'm only counting in (who'll need room):
1) thebigslick
2) fcf
3) lundon + 1 friend
4) fryking
5) easttiger
we need your reply by this sun., (thebigslick already booked room A),
otherwise i'll get room B and use 6 as the FINAL number for hotel cost
sharing, etc.
所。 |
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p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 8 初段没啥名气的话,也没太多收入的. 但是成为一个职业初段,难度是不可想象的.说句
难听的,这个板上所有人里面估计都未必能出一个. 但是扑克是个人就可以打,而且就像
大牛fcf说的,只要智力在70以上,用点心思,可以beat NL200的 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 9 罪过罪过...
那我就说句大实话. 其实poker 的门槛真是很低很低.. 稍微有点头脑的人都可以稳定
赢钱,而且可以赢不少. 究其原因,因为打poker 主要有两部分人组成:
1) 消遣的, 有没有钱都是为了entertainment, 他们基本是鱼,送钱来的, 这种鱼各个
级别都有.
2) 要来赚钱为生的. 这些人大部分都不是super smart 或capable 的 , 只是因为
poker 这个游戏太简单, 他们稍微会打一点可以靠抓 1) 里的鱼还是能混得不错. 为十
么我说这部分人大都不是super smart 或capable? 因为毕竟打牌在别人眼里还是赌博
, 是不被主流社会所接受的.如果他们能找到一份不错(equally paid or slightly
less) 的工作,大可不必要靠此为生, 而且打牌做职业还是很辛苦的一件事, swing 也
是不可避免的.
所以一部分我认为exceptionally intelligent 的人, 比如说: FCF. 很容易就可以专
业打牌挣到很多钱. 毕竟你面对的大部分对手 1) 2) 要不就是来送钱的,要不就是些根本... 阅读全帖 |
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c******n
发帖数: 15 | 10 fryking 说的很在理啊，这些最好的玩家在这个limit打了这么久，也“只有”这个
winrate足以说明打这个game的不易。
online poker打cash这么成功的，中国只有一个fcf（不知道还能不能说是中国...）。
他赢的轻松不代表是个人就可以。
online poker,无论什么winrate,先挣够$100k再说easy game.
regular |
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p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 11
这也可能说明,poker的所谓技术最多也就只能把一个player的edge提高到"只有"这个
winrate的程度.
没人否认fcf打的好,也没人说和他可以比较,不知道这个论点何来的
真有人打到100k,也会有人跳出来说打够1M再说的,这种话有啥意义
我无意贬低poker,但是目前就我各人感受,在poker里面赚同样的钱(或许赚点糊口的小
钱,大钱也没赚过,不评论), 远比其他职业棋牌容易. 我各人玩poker,总共花的时间(玩
牌看书)一起估计也就几百个小时, 目前也赚了10k左右,可能不起眼,不过要是这几百个
小时我花在围棋啥上面,我连一毛钱也赚不到. 我相信wind mm也差不多吧? 呵呵 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 12 几点杂感。
除了高不可攀的如david chiu, johnny chan等人，和网络无法考证的中国玩家，fcf的
确是俺孤漏寡闻知道的一个另类。
不知道别人，俺耗了3年，只能说属于很平庸的，还在1/2NL, 50NL，micro stake
tournament这样的低级别grind，虽然论战绩，一年下来有个一万，还能的确比那75%的
强。看怎么定义聪明和努力了，但俺觉得总体不行。
看了cardplayer上起码有100个高手的经历，俺以前归纳过，3年似乎真是个坎，3年没
咋的的(不管什么原因)，再给3年也白搭。
经济差，扑克也受很大影响，UIGEA打击也很大，熬到现在的玩家，俺不敢说还有多少
真是fish, donk，长期送钱的角色，谁对谁真有多大的edge。
咱可能打了几手牌，觉得某个玩家很鱼，其实很可能只是盲人摸象而已。俺现在给谁
记笔记，都争取客观一些，而且如果一个玩家有一阵不见了，最新的动态俺也争取及
时更新，大家都在进步。PLO只所以被炒作要流行(其实也没咋的)，其实的确是因为
NLHE这些年给人吃得很透。
很多pros自己也承认，一年下来其实主要是靠bonus和rake... 阅读全帖 |
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T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 13 I think windstormm is referring to low stake game as easy game. If you are
willing to study and work hard a little bit, you can beat micro or low stake
game in a short period of time. Because just like ppl trading stocks, too
many ppl are too lazy to put any kind of effort to study and do research. If
you work hard than average joe a little bit, you can beat them.
However, I will never ever play poker as living, it is just too damn hard.
Just like fcf said, you have to concentrate all the time, ... 阅读全帖 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 14 FCF 说得不错。important skills to improve in poker
1) not to be result oriented. Most important of all skills in poker is to
see through the long term ev over 1 or 2 hands samples.
2) tilt control and bank roll management. This is not even poker skill anymore.
I actually think anyone who take this game seriously can beat NL100 (can't comment on NL200 since I have not played 1 hand there) at least
marginally simply by going to any free resources out there (i.e. 2+2 forum)
without getting any formal t... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 15 i guess the gap is how we define "seriously".
i guess most "regulars" somehow all believe they're already taking this game
"seriously" (just like they believe they're better players than the other
75%), after all, they talk about XXX hands, play XXX hands, read X books,
watch Y videos, almost everyday... it's all about how much they really get
from these X and Ys. or like fcf said, most of them still overestimate their
skills.
like for myself, how many books have i read? 10+, how many videos? 10... 阅读全帖 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 16 Agreed. Think about the game more yourself + visiting 2+2 = profit at micro/
small stake.
fcf 大侠能不能请你多在这里其它文章里发发帖？ 我很想听听你对我们一些讨论的不
同意见。能指出一些错误观点，我们都会感激不尽的， 还是您老看我们一堆鱼争论不
休，不屑发贴啊？
book, |
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L****n
发帖数: 490 | 17 You can book for me and my friend, fcf
not mind much about the price difference. I will pm you my cell number. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 18 check the latest update, if fcf they take 4 for room B, we're having about 4
-6 ppl for room A, including those, like you, 1 nighters. |
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G********r
发帖数: 666 | 19 Very very informative posts. Thanks to you all, especially fcf, windstormm,
fryking banzhu and patrick who started this series. |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 20 He is playing with Phil Ivey. Somehow get disconnected. Later Ziigmond
hopped in.
Phil Ivey immediately sit-out. lol.
Recommend FCF get bankroll to play this most poular player soon. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 21 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 智勇大冲关 突然觉得用湖南卫视的这个垃圾节目的名字来形容扑克很恰当。
智，扑克需要基本的智力，但是更多的是一种street smart和理论相结合的“智”。
fcf说有高中学历就够了，呵呵，很多牛B的pros要不是quit了school就是没上过大学或
者就是野鸡大学，但是并不代表人家在这方面智慧只是高中水平，关注焦点不一样而已
，而学历高在扑克上没有什么意义，博士，诺贝尔打牌一辈子可能也打不过。
勇，可以是aggression的最好注释，赢家里面不管TAG也好，LAG也好，这个aggression
或者更进一步说selectively aggressive based on xxx, yyy, and zzz，是成功的关
键。
大，扑克最终不迅速搞大，没有大目标可能只是浪费时间，打发无聊，得不偿失。
冲关只是自然结果，能冲到哪关因人而异。 |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 22 haha.
There are a lot of smart players doing exactly the same. Urindanger,
trex313, maybe they are asian. I remember Phil Galfond is up 8million,
without big downswings.
PA has discipline also, he will take a break after losing 600k.
Those HU specials are usually very crazy, will lose 25% of their whole life
winning in one night. However, I do not think our FCF will do that in his
life.
one
one |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 23 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 一点建议 贴图确实不方便。
要插图，而非attachment方式的话，得先贴图到第三方网站比如flickr，然后把链接插
在文字中。
此外，咱们版在这个BBS比较非主流，感觉站方也不是很在意咱们(可能是错觉)，反正
很少有俺们版的文章被置顶吸引人气，唯一一次还是因为标题党，迎合了他们的流量追
求，让很多人稀里糊涂的跑过来看。
对扑克知道得少的可能还以为咱们这是个地处德州的拖拉机俱乐部呢。
俺倒是完全同意fcf对华人扑克方兴未艾，大前夜的结论。 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 24 如果桌子比较紧，77，88这么干(也还不要太频繁太明显)还有点意思，算半个blocking
bet。
JJ这么干，不发生这把的情况，也很容易发生后面3，4个callers的情况，SB/BB一看
odds不错，全跑进来，flop咱就等着抓狂吧，翻出什么来咱都很危险，翻高了你没有位
置，人又多，很难打，翻低了你哪知道后面什么33，55的是不是中了set，67s，89o什
么的是不是有了big draws？...你搞大了不安，搞小了后面更难受。
所以非常之不爽，很多人都是最初打得不够狠，最后又pay off人家，拿不起，放不下。
这样的flop， donk bet那么多，俺个人觉得也非常不好，和fcf说的一样，太多牌可以
这么干了，真Kx可能倒不见得马上pop(当然，也有一定比例的mix up)。没有位置太致
命了，你这个fold还只是留个可能被bluff的疑问，你要call了，turn上人家胆子大的
再搞你一把，你搞不好就要commit(何况还确实得考虑有value的AA，QQ等等牌，甚至
semi-bluff的AQ catch turn A/Q，backdoor，PP catches u... 阅读全帖 |
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c****1
发帖数: 457 | 25 I think fcf were talking about two key issues in general
1. always plan ahead
2. notice the chip left behind and design your betting size for the current
and future streets.
as for this particular hand, folding AK at some point may not be a bad idea. |
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D*****A
发帖数: 551 | 26 需要咀嚼一下。谢谢fcf分享。
能不能延伸一下，讲讲翻牌后怎么玩？ |
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s*********r
发帖数: 4210 | 27 wonder what's AA's nickname in this sense? I used this fcf's strategy last
couple of days, pretty good. thanks. |
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D*****A
发帖数: 551 | 28 KK standard raise
I 3 bet
KK 4 bet
I gave him "buffet"
KK called |
|
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f*f
发帖数: 121 | 30 lol. see, even if you get called, you have suck out equity.. |
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p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 31 AK again kk is ok, still 30% to win, not a disaster, the only hand AK will
fear is AA, which is only 3 combo |
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p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 32 咱们让fcf老大也出本书,然后来个炒作,订价就999999.99 一本,说不定也有fish来买 |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 33 haha.
This fish is huge. We may get caught by the big fish. Need fcf to catch this
kind of huge fish. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 34 i don't like the flop check call, would lose a lot of value in the long term.
1) your hand is not going to improve. this hand is quite different from the
hand patrick posted above, where AQ on Qxx.
2) out of position. in position, i'd do this sometimes because i can get a
lot of more info from his bet size, 2 barreling, etc., but without, trapping
or waiting for someone to bet into you with TPTK does not look that good;
3) he can hardly fire another barrel on the turn for a lot of his hands like... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 35 let's just be honest, everyone goes on tilt here and there.
then the only real difference is how much/often, if we play a large number
of tourneys everyday, then this may not be that big deal at all.
but if we, as recreational players, only play 2 or 3 in a week, get one deep
then busted by such a hand, then it looks like such a "big" deal.
fcf's friend puts in $50K each month as buy-ins to play tourneys, do you
think he makes deep all the time? or he doesn't get "shit" (more accurate
than "bad"... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 36 很难，先工作吧。
而且如fcf说的，如果没有稳定的3年以上，能3x薪水的记录，当个pro其实很累，尤其
如果没有退路。扑克世界里花开花落，很多人也销声匿迹了。
Technology 的PHD，做data mining/statistics的，对optimization， supply chain
也知道一些。 |
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n**********d
发帖数: 270 | 37 基本上同意KING的意见。个人觉得，能够POKER和自己的事业两不误，那样最好。象
Jamie Gold。如果你能象fcf那样，把POKER弄成自己的事业也行。只依靠打牌来生活，
并不是说不会成功，只是对于生活的挑战太小了。
至于身份，如果实在找不到H-1B sponsor的话，可以自己注资搞个公司，LLC或者C
Corp，再找个有身份的人挂靠一下managing partner,以这个公司的名义给自己办H-1B
。几年前我有朋友就是这么做的。现在还行不行不知道，可以咨询一下移民方面的律师
，多问几个。当然，我那个朋友是有一个legitimate的business idea, over the
years made money to support his own salary and beyond. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 38 说实话，俺个人觉得扑克当副业，而且还是有时间限制的主/副业(比如某几年)还行，
赚点钱。象你这样的，一把搞个牛X的，算是第一桶金吧，能做到这个的已经相对来说
是凤毛麟角。你老婆是对的，管死你的钱，呵呵。
长期搞，俺觉得可能压力很大，fcf就说过他全职后感觉很累，举的例子是他明知道AJ
对某个对手是60%的胜算，但是也不得不承受那40%的倒霉......有其他正式工作，至少
(基本上)是个旱涝保收，生活也比较规律，没有今天，这礼拜，这个月必须赢多少钱的
压力。一边上班，晚上，周末业余这边搞点，心理状态和全职不可同日而语。尤其是要
赢大钱，和对手的差距越小，越艰难。
扑克这工作也经常是黑白颠倒，对身体健康不利。真正对输赢不为所动的人俺觉得很少
，或者说只是价码的问题, dusty都必须请心理医生，何况咱们。由于高额输赢带来的
情绪化，对家庭可能也不好。而且扑克现在被社会认同还是很差，也得承受一定异类的
感觉。
至于什么visa？那帮人主要都是欧盟国家的，来美国没记错的话，90天内不需要签证，
大不了再出去溜一圈再回来。 |
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S*********e
发帖数: 865 | 39 fryking领队，
队员有cmis95，yjj，kkrun, summerbrook，等，
fcf等大牛作为随队指导。
我等可以去打酱油，加油助威
一个人去的概率是1/7000，10个人就是1/700.
第一个中国wsop冠军就看你们的了 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 40 你闹笑话啦，哈哈，真是100/200NL的，就是俗称的流鼻血(nose bleeding)级别的了，
这个级别的玩家，全世界加起来可能都还没有咱们这个版的人多。
咱们版最牛的职业玩家fcf，一年进账几十万，也就是到1000NL(5/10NL HU)这个级别，
象他这样的，在老中里面凤毛麟角，在全世界也是极少数。
想咱们这种业余玩的，能突破200NL就已经很了不起了。 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 41 fcf's training site http://www.kungfu-poker.com/ is about to launch soon, and there're some other chinese site too, like www.zhiyoucheng.com, www.dafapoker.com, etc.
but i don't think they cover basic 入门资料 for beginners:
1) you'd better read english ones, many of them are good;
2) it's a game of practice, without large volume of hands, you have no idea
what the authors are talking about. in some sense, we have to pay "tuition"
here and there by playing real hands. |
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t*********d
发帖数: 3398 | 42 最近有些烦心事， 打的不多， 也没心情跑了， 错过与fcf, goes和老大你们的见面机
会， 实在是天大的遗憾， 希望明年有机会再聚。
股票和poker很像， poker的经验让我做股票有了新的理解， 发现技术是其次的， 心
态是最重要的。 股市的好处在于合理操作可以避免bad beat， 比如不做消息市，
option不过夜， 设stop loss等等。 反过来， 股市经验让我学会了在poker中减少bad
beat的机会， 颇有心得。
估计以后重心放在股市， poker其次。 |
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h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 43 if you still use this kind of thing during play, you are probably at stage 2
that fcf described. concentrate/improve on other things. odds is the
easiset part. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 44 have you guys settled for car pool and hotel room sharing?
please comfirm ASAP.
for other guys, since we only have 3 rooms, and more likely we'll share 1
room per 4 guys, IF you drive, it's not a bad idea to bring a sleeping bag,
thanks for being considerate! |
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f*f
发帖数: 121 | 45 yes, I talked to Lundon already, we will share the room and go there
together Friday afternoon, probably get there between 6-7pm. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 46 thanks! did you guys include easttiger from NC? |
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L****n
发帖数: 490 | 47 Easttiger called me and he would carpool with us. |
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|
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 50 are you trying to scare fcf? lol.
no big deal, i guess, they'll fix it sometime, just wait... |
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