L****n
发帖数: 490 | 1 fulltilt 也是这么回我的，说我的account 已经attach to another affiliate, 不能
给我rakeback.
可能以前点其他website 才link 到 fulltilt 的，基本上这样就不可能拿rakeback 了 |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 2 lol, you should read the book crystalszero suggested too, The Poker
Blueprint (pdf).
you're the typical player the book author recommends, move up fast or give
up. i wish i could do that, but as the author calls, i'm the other type, who
gets older and cares much about losses (less gambling tendency).
as for rakeback, yes, many grinders live on it. as we may only have a small
edge at the stake we play, this becomes critical. if you break even for a
year, you'll see how rakeback adds up to be your |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 3 欧，那你可能没有必要去打100NL，50NL或者25NL(时间长点)都够了。
一天200点的话，一个月rakeback应该有300左右，再完成700就可以了，平均每天$25，
除非你不把rakeback算数。
2桌一小时的话，一天有800手，5bb/100大概到$20(50NL)，完全可以做到的。从劳动强
度和NL100相比的角度。
如果你再精打细算，把bonus，points, tokens什么的都算的话，甚至可以在3-4BB就可
以。 |
|
t*********d
发帖数: 3398 | 4 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 纪念一下 刚才check rakeback, 发现账户profit+rakeback过了$2700. 这对于我来说是一个重要的数字， 因为这个数字意味着我终于出水了。
2月20号存入$150刀的时候， 清理了一下之前所有的存钱取钱纪律， 发现自去年4月开始玩poker以来net loss -$2700, 其中大部分是NL1000上面输的 (NL600赢了$5000+, NL1000上输了$7000)， 另外一部分是rush poker刚出时试水输的。
从2月20号开始， 开始买书看， 都是fryking2老大推荐的， 都非常有用。 后来看到fcf的文章， 也深受启发。在此深表感谢。
从2月20号开始，风格开始变得稳重， 开始bankroll management，选定NL100 rush poker， 耐心打到66k手。开始认真对待poker这一爱好， 学会了找自己的缺点并针对性的改正。
希望自己不骄不躁， 再接再厉, 顺利升级。 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 5 no, you just need to make more rakeback and bring it to positive, before you
can receive payout.
a lot of things hurt rakeback, like using FTP points to buy stuff, cashing
out checks, getting bonuses (except some types, like mid-year ironman bonus). |
|
v*****e
发帖数: 497 | 6 在FTP上玩了一年了，才发现有rakeback这个东西。
以前都是玩NL，基本没玩tournament。 进出量也要上千了，不知道rakeback能有多少
据说找ftp能要回注册rakebackpro之前的rake，列为大侠有成功的吗？怎么要？
攒人品，有信息量跟帖必发俩包子。谢谢 |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 7 welcome, two new hands.
well, if you play cash games, you HAVE TO have rakeback, it'll add up to be
a lot.
just to give you an idea, i play 25NL rush (very micro stake), for the last 4
months or 100K hands, total rake is over $2K, and rakeback is 27% of this.
you can email to argue with/beg them, but be prepared to take a looooong
process before they finally say yes (many of us got ours this way).
or you can ask them to close the existing one and then create a new account
(referred from rackback |
|
v*****e
发帖数: 497 | 8 what do you mean by pre-rakeback?
I have got the rackback since I registered two weeks ago. but i have been
playing for one year, so do you mean i can request the rakeback before i
registerd on rakebackpro.com?
be
last 4
account |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 9 no, like Windstormm said, you can't get the rakeback before you register
with rakebackpros, only future rakeback. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 10 yeah, even for a good small stake winner, he'll see more rake taken by FTP
than his profit in a year. so rakeback is a MUST.
if i break even at 50NL for a year, rakeback would be about $4K, imagine
that.
as for AC, i'm not going in near future since Delaware Park will be open in
2 weeks. if they do offer the same games like AC (this is what i've heard)
and have a decent amount of players, i'll go there sometimes with my dad for
fun.
1 hour vs. 3 hours each way, really a no brainer to me.
.
now |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 11 已经run bad 1个月了.. 习惯了....本想月底前加上rakeback bonus社么的 NL50
profit 到4k, 现在看来还有点危险..下半个月要加油了.. 光靠rakeback 和bonus 是不行了...
running so bad, i almost tilted once or twice early this month which rarely happens to me anymore. |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 12 go to ironman store, buy $26 tournament tickets (140 medals/each), NOT the
step 3 ($26, same face value) tickets.
it has good value because:
1) it doesn't hurt your rakeback;
2) it can be used in SNG, MTT, and step tournaments.
do NOT use FTP points to buy anything, although you can get tournament
tickets/cameras/books... in the fulltilt store (not ironman store). it will
hurt your rakeback badly!!! my plan is to save all FTP points, and one day
when i decide to quit FTP (after cashing out all $ |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 13 I remeber one day I get stupid on super turbo HU. Play around 1.5 days, get
around 292$ for rakeback. And I lost all my money on that account around 1.
2k$.
At that time, the rake is just huge. 48+2. I guess in the long run, very
very few ppl can beat the rake. Nowadays, the rake is 50+1. Still a lot, but
much better than before.
And last last week, I play super turbo HU under pokeryjj, and get 154$ as my
second best record on FTP.
From my impression, DoylesRoom has much higher rakeback. The dat |
|
L****n
发帖数: 490 | 14 恩，不升的话是没啥意思。NL 50 赢的钱很鸡肋。不过，玩 RUSH NL200 的话，感觉 player
pool 太小。怕没有足够的鱼 support。
过几个月，弄个有rakeback 的账号就升 100NL.有rakeback 的话，基本没什么亏钱的
风险了。 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 15 如果旧帐户要加rakeback, 要先把ftp point 花了.. 否则就亏了, 之后就会扣你
rakeback了...一直不能用, 直到你再也不玩了... |
|
P******o
发帖数: 37 | 16 我知道FT的point是会伤Rakeback,不过我一直以为用它还是比不用好，比如说45000点
可以买一张$216的Tournament Ticket, 那么会减少你多少Rakeback呢？
45000*0.005*27%=$60.75
这不想当于你花$60.75去打$216 buy-in的比赛？难道不划算吗？
我今年才建的Fulltilt账号，对它的系统不太熟悉，我的计算有错误吗？ |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 17 no, we're not "不用", hehe, it's "free" $ anyway. if you're mostly a cash
game player, not worth using them NOW.
i'll use them all when i'm done with this account and no longer care about
rakeback. or i may not quit, but switch this account to full tournament mode
, where rakeback is next to nothing. |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 18 yeah, i was posting this too, it sucks, i'm getting at least 20% less from
rakeback.
i compared this week and last week's data (before and after 10/1), i played
about 50% more hands actually, winnings about the same, but rakeback is much
less.
no wonder ppl are planning to protest this fri. on FTP, by opening 12
regular tables, but just sit out until they are kicked out.
ftp |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 19 ???
my exmaple is not simple enough? hehe.
you 9 ppl play this SNG using 1800 points/each, it's like FTP puts in 9*9=$
81 real money, whoever wins/loses doesn't make a diff. to FTP, they lose
this $81 in revenues, of course they'll find some way to get it back, and
this some way is from rakeback on EACH of you.
same for you withdrawing $ (e-check or check or whatever method) from FTP,
it looks "free" without any fees to you, but it's NOT free for FTP. they have
to pay middle processors processin... 阅读全帖 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 20 赞，这么大的坑俺还没有跳过，进去还能爬出来更是不易。
俺这个月看来要虎头蛇尾，月初10K hands，高达13.6BB/100，中间疲软，有两个周末
各下去4 buy-ins，不怨别人怨自己失常，大起大落，4个还是在毛驴拉一把的前提下，
呵呵。月末又起来一点，归根结底还是要吃rakeback的本。
cash (till today): $597.13
tourney (only some micro ones): $71.51
rakeback: $311.51
total = $980.15 + a few tourney tokens.
手
近1 |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 21 呵呵，俺觉得你绝对应该打rush，早就应该打了。
rush因为都是遭遇战，相对比较考验基本功。
此外，确实数量猛涨，无论是对付variance还是赚rakeback，都是很好的武器。
感觉现在online poker水有越来越干的趋势，观察很多比如100NL，200N这种的中等桌
子，连rush带regular，FTP上同时在线可能也就几百人撑死了，很多人都是multi-
tabling。常规游戏里面600NL的，今天还是最人多的周日，现在只勉强开了2桌。
水越干，regular越多，彼此的竞争越激烈，rakeback什么的越重要。 |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 22 欢迎新面孔！
这个stake一天100很帅了，加上rakeback，一年4，5万，2009年100NL最好网上选手不过
如此。
俺做不到，一个月稳定能做到一千，还是平均下来，而且包括rakeback。 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 23 年度总结
[X] Start playing rush cash game to clear deposit bonus for new account
[X] Move away from 9 person SNG to cash
[X] Become a winner at cash game
[X] Move from NL 10 to NL 100 over the year
[ ] Stop being a bank roll nit
[ ] Stop being a nit
[X] Play 460K hands (around 600-700 hours)
[X] Win at all level played
[X] Win every month including rakeback/bonus
[ ] Win every month without rakeback/bonus
[ ] Level up to NL 200
[X] Finish my original goal of 5k earning
[X} Finish 1... 阅读全帖 |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 24 lol.
I guess I do want to put a correction on 365days per year in goes' thread
originally. However,...
King, you are right. I usually put 25 days as a month. But considering ppl
who gets 3k points per day, they usually will get 4k or 4.5k points days in
general.
normal grinder on NL200 is hard to achieve 3k/day, but they do have chance
to hit 1500points per day scenario. Those high stake SNG HUers are normally
champions of rakeback race. They may pay 30k$ for the rake only every month.
Rakeback ... 阅读全帖 |
|
p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 25 you still don't have rakeback for fulltilt? I remember fryking wrote some
articles on this board about how to get it. you might want to check it out.
Rakeback adds up to lots of money over time.
by the way, my husng does not require skills. in super turbo, you just
shove/fold, not much chance for post flop play.
了1 |
|
s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 26 hehe, I also got $2000 including rakeback by playing Super Turbo SNG
my first winning month though, jumped from $5 level to $20 level
after
one
.
rakeback. |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 27 Quick summary:
Very poor win rate ~2.12bb/100hand.
Very poor hourly rate ~ 40$/hour
Total earning: winning+rakeback+bonus=$4k.
Without the 900$ cash bonus that I cleared, it would have been a very bad
month.
March is another failed month. I am turning into a rakeback pro and a
downswing king. |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 28 thanks. BTW, which skin in merge network offer rakeback now? any rakeback
site to recommend? I got an email from rakebackrain called Black Friday
special , lol. |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 29 The normal deposit bonus only gives you around 6% rack back. the ones give
you up to 200% is even less than that. It is much better to find a good
rakeback program than going around getting bonuses. You might lose money
that way in fact if the site does not give you rake back. The nuts give
you 45% rake back with the personal rake race with 500$ mgr/month, that
alone is
more than the regular rakeback + most deposit bonuss.
get |
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s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 30 merge 的vip系统和rakeback系统不一样
vip是用点换，sportbooks那个级别最高好像是45%
rakeback系统就是按之前的不管哪个级别都是35% |
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s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 31 3bb/100 is before rakeback
if you consider the sick bonus+rakeback from FTP, I think you can get at
least 5bb/100 more.
or
that |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 32 我在ftp抽水太厉害。
我一般也就7桌，20$level，就这样还40$每小时的抽水.(没有用tableninja，也不想多
开，因为抽水的问题。)
如果我能在PS上打平PS的60刀级别hyper turbo，sne 应该还是可以做到的。
Supernova Elite Rewards:
VIP Stellar Rewards $1,200
Milestone Cash Credits $43,200
WCOOP Main Event $5,200
FPP's* $54,310-$80,000
VIP Freerolls $120-$1120
Total $104,030-$130,720
（这个很准，rakeback第一年58%，第二年74%），可能比这个还高一些，还有个下线的
rakeback， 100vpp = 1$，基本上，sne，就能再加一万。
ftp第一年27%，第二年 29%
如果同样是sne, ftp第一年应该比PS少5万反水，第二年，差8万
大家给些建议。 |
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p******a
发帖数: 975 | 33 ACR的rake系统很奇怪，一共有三重rake。
普通rake 5% cap $3。 Bad beat jackpot rake $0.07。 “The beast” jackpot
rake $0.18。如果每月打牌超过10k手，“the beast”的rake大概会返还110%到120%。
普通rakeback 27%， BBJ quad 8 or better。还有就是100% first deposit bonus 永
不过期。感觉就是如果每月打得比较少（<2k），它的rake是超高的。如果打得超多(>
200k),仅“the beast”的rakeback盈利就会超过$5000。然后没有reward points...
能用HM。一般NL100人比较多，晚上8桌不成问题吧。NL50人少一点6max一般4～5桌。经
常可以看到leatherass在玩NL200～NL400。
玩家水平是我玩过的几个站当中最高的。NL50还好，紧弱的比较多，我明显有一些edge
。NL100的大部分玩家在preflop和3b pot打的非常凶。我只能break even。之前在lock
玩NL10... 阅读全帖 |
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p******a
发帖数: 975 | 34 I see. You are pro and relying on rakeback for profit.
That's why we are comparing apples with pears all the time.
Again, I am amateur, and play for fun. Rakeback is not in my calculation at
all...
amazing
cash |
|
p******a
发帖数: 975 | 35 lol, I don't even know what zoom is...
Are you in China? I assume that's why you can play on PS.
How am I supposed to care about rakeback if ACR is my only choice? Lock does
have much better rakeback program, where I have half of my bankroll stuck.
You kids just don't understand the pain of American poker players...
aware
will
20
.
8 |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 36 your overall winning is equal to the winrate multiply by how many hands you
have
played.
Apparently all of us overlook the second factor of this equation.
rakeback is an extra bouns. PS's SNE gives you around 100K for the first
year, 130K for the second year. But it is very hard to achieve.-------〉注意
这部分收入是不受波动影响的
你可以把rackback看成是推销员的佣金。所以9人桌的佣金肯定要大于6人卓的佣金，因
为你在9人桌上拉了其他8位客户。。
同时你得到你佣金和你拉到的全部生意有关。拉得越多，rakeback越多。
估计楼主对所提到的dusty schmidt看法有偏差，而且并不知道对手总共打了多少手牌。
dusty schmidt等于是翻版的nanonoko。他是那种20---... 阅读全帖 |
|
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 37 我明白你的意思，手数当然很重要，开两桌和二十桌差别太大了。
我只是比较一下win rate and rakeback,单位都是bb/100一样的。这么说来努力提高
win rate 还不如去找个rakeback的见效 |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 38 那就和888 一样了？ 很不方便。
看来现在用hud 的只有borgata 的party poker? 我看了看borgata party poker 的
reward system, 太坑爹了，只有10%左右rakeback. 这对cash grinder 来说太不利了
。 不过鱼真是很多，虽然还是profitable的, 但是要是rakeback 再多点就好了。。 |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 39 我这个bookmaker.eu也是WPN的，没有rakeback啊。
现在去ameican cardroom开户还能拿27% rakeback吗？ |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 40 5dimesd的shark tank poker有27% rakeback。
所以它和ACR是一样的。
同一个network。同样的rakeback。 |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 41 我最近在想为什么鱼都跑到bovada去了？regular都跑到WPN去了？
因为这两个赌场的不同政策有意造成的。
WPN：能用软件，鼓励多台，鼓励high volume players（通过rakeback和beast）。
bovada：不能用HUD，没有rakeback。
除了这些还有没有其他？
假设bovada调整badbeat的概率，让落后的牌追上的概率提高，这对winning players是
最大负面因素。我不是说bovada现在是这样做的。我是说这种事只能猜，你不能确定，
也不能否定。
本班两个高手从bovada撤退，一个是完全因为这个原因，另一个，这个原因也占了相当
比重。
看看bovada的姐妹公司betonline（同一个老板）：
http://www.safestpokersites.com/chico-poker-network-warning/
Chico Poker Discourages Winning Players
It seems that harassing winning players is becoming more and more norm... 阅读全帖 |
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w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 42 明天开始，open waters poker rakeback降到35%。
fish Pond poker rakeback保持50%。 |
|
T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 43 Online 的 bad beat 比 live 多，应该是没有什么质疑的。你可以说是因为 volume
多造成的，我总是认为他软件里人为增加 bad beat 或 cooler 的几率。
不管怎么说，online poker 的环境到现在是无以复加的恶劣。 大多数网站人数少，池
小，好多也不给 rakeback，promotion 朝令夕改，最恶劣的网站，就像 lock 一样，
即使赢了钱也提不出来。
经过 fulltilt 和 lock 两大战役，我已经提不起兴趣打 online 了。 玩家没有保障
，池小，鱼少。每天 login 就看到那几张老面孔，看得我都恶心。 运气好碰到一个送
钱的，一堆人等在那里，还要祈祷鱼不要把自己 suck out，然后又 donate 给其他人。
还是那句话，你不能把打 poker 当饭吃。打 poker 作为职业是很辛苦的一件事，绝大
多数的人付出和回报不成比例。Fryking 以前不是说最好的 NL100 一年才赚 8 万？
那还是有 rakeback 的时代。他也不知道打了多少手。一般人有个正经工作，几年下来
7-8 万工资还是很正常吧。 |
|
j******3
发帖数: 18319 | 44 【 以下文字转载自 TexasHoldem 讨论区 】
发信人: vinique (vinique), 信区: TexasHoldem
标 题: 请教，发包子
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Apr 16 04:32:45 2010, 美东)
在FTP上玩了一年了，才发现有rakeback这个东西。
以前都是玩NL，基本没玩tournament。 进出量也要上千了，不知道rakeback能有多少
据说找ftp能要回注册rakebackpro之前的rake，列为大侠有成功的吗？怎么要？
攒人品，有信息量跟帖必发俩包子。谢谢 |
|
k******t
发帖数: 257 | 45 Anybody here get rakeback in FT?
A guy claimed getting 1k/month rakeback from FT in my live game table. |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 46 不是整数的话，象是rakeback，你是通过某affilate加入的吧？不过你玩得不多的话，
这个rakeback有点高的不对头。
整数的话，比如$5，$10，可能是deposit bonus。你玩够一定的FTP点数，就给你一点。
ANYWAY，为了避免疑惑，你可以转给俺，俺帮你洗钱，呵呵。 |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 47 TNND，KK lost to AK, QQ to 99 twice, AK to KQ，...连着搞了俺几把，昨天FTP再
次坚定拒绝了给俺rakeback的可能，新仇旧恨。
换个地歇口气，注册帐户，rakeback，1st deposit bonus，一个不能少，呵呵，ID么
，也来个酷点的，2Kings2Win，咋样？效仿某牛人的。 |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 48 你比俺这种人大有潜力，呵呵，俺看不上你rakeback请俺个汉堡包，俺要等你pro了，
吃汉堡包，薯条，再加杯可乐。
俺也是和FTP斗争很久后，才刚拿到一点点rakeback，呵呵。 |
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 49 rakeback象这种后来才补加入的，不给以前的积累，只算将来的。
所以一开始就搞定很重要，一年下来可能吓你一跳，2+2都说不少人rakeback+bonus比
真正赢的都多。 |
|
t*********d
发帖数: 3398 | 50 思考了一下， 好像打cash game比打tournament对这个rakeback有利。tournament赢钱
的几率太小，及时赢一次大的， rakeback上限3刀， 没什么赚头。 但是cash game不
一样。 每赢一把， 有3% x 27%= 0.8%的refund， up to 3刀一次。这样只要cash
game打的多， 不用net profit要多高， 只要输赢的次数足够， 这个0.8%累计起来比
较可观。 |
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